[PHninja]

Hello I'm new to this forum.
I got a 2017 zx10r with 5k miles

The bike has a full short graves exhaust, sprint filter, airbox mod and wrap marchesini wheels.

All emissions were removed .

My local shop in Dallas tx flashed my ecu and dyno tuned my bike.

The results were sad after watching that most zx10r are in the 190s

My final results are 178 whp .

My local shop thinks this is a rare defective zx10r from dealer.

Has anyone had any issues like this before? Or do you guys know any experts on zx10r in Dallas tx ?

Thank you

 

[Carlos76]

Is inital 172hp with unflshed USA ECU?

 

[SkyDork]

You need to not worry about the single number. You should be concentrating on the increase between the before and after numbers which shows about 6hp. That's respectable for a slip-on. I would say you're right in-line with every other ZX-10R. Considering the brand new Gen 6 ZX-10R made 178hp stock right out of the crate on a dyno, you're pretty close. It depends on how the dyno is set up and they can make it read all kinds of numbers. So comparing yours to some other one on a different day won't gain you much. The numbers listed from Kawi are crank numbers, not rear wheel to-the-road numbers. The Gen 5 should be putting down in the mid 180s from 2016-2018 with the 2019-2020 Gen 5.5 in the low 190s at the crank. That's way different than on a dyno. "Rare defective ZX-10R"??? Whoever told you that is blowing sunshine up your ass. Stop relying on the dyno number as gospel. It's a tuning tool.

 

[PHninja]

@ carlos76 I think is 167-168 wheel hp stock in USA

 

[PHninja]

You need to not worry about the single number. You should be concentrating on the increase between the before and after numbers which shows about 6hp. That's respectable for a slip-on. I would say you're right in-line with every other ZX-10R. Considering the brand new Gen 6 ZX-10R made 178hp stock right out of the crate on a dyno, you're pretty close. It depends on how the dyno is set up and they can make it read all kinds of numbers. So comparing yours to some other one on a different day won't gain you much. The numbers listed from Kawi are crank numbers, not rear wheel to-the-road numbers. The Gen 5 should be putting down in the mid 180s from 2016-2018 with the 2019-2020 Gen 5.5 in the low 190s at the crank. That's way different than on a dyno. "Rare defective ZX-10R"??? Whoever told you that is blowing sunshine up your ass. Stop relying on the dyno number as gospel. It's a tuning tool.

So you are telling me not to worry about dyno numbers and you think 178 wheel horsepower after flash, dyno tune and full bolt ons is okay?

My buddy's 16 zx10r showing 193 wheel horsepower on same day same dyno. 🤷‍♂️

 

[SkyDork]

So you are telling me not to worry about dyno numbers and you think 178 wheel horsepower after flash, dyno tune and full bolt ons is okay?

My buddy's 16 zx10r showing 193 wheel horsepower on same day same dyno. 🤷‍♂️

Yup, that's what I'm telling you.

There are too many variables to compare yours to your buddies. What mods does he have? What tune is he running? What gear ratio does he run? How was it broken in? What oil is he using? What fuel did you use? When was your valve lash checked last? When were your spark plugs last gapped? What tires are you running and what tire pressure do you have?

There's way too many differences to compare like that. If your rear tire is slipping on the dyno drum because the pressure is too high and his isn't, he will have a higher number. If his bike was strapped to the dyno tighter than yours was, same thing. It's crap like that that will affect the runs and people don't understand that. Your bike was on a dyno at Kawasaki Headquarters before it came off the assembly line for a Quality Control check. Same as his. What's happened to it over the last several years compared to his is the difference and there are so many factors involved you should be asking more questions of your buddy's bike.

 

[PHninja]

Yup, that's what I'm telling you.

There are too many variables to compare yours to your buddies. What mods does he have? What tune does is he running? What gear ratio does he run? How was it broken in? What oil is he using? What fuel did you use? When was your valve lash checked last? When were your spark plugs last gapped? What tires are you running and what tire pressure do you have?

There's way too many differences to compare like that. If your rear tire is slipping on the dyno drum because the pressure is too high and his isn't, he will have a higher number. If his bike was strapped to the dyno tighter than yours was, same thing. It's crap like that that will affect the runs and people don't understand that. Your bike was on a dyno at Kawasaki Headquarters before it came off the assembly line for a Quality Control check. Same as his. What's happened to it over the last several years compared to his is the difference and there are so many factors involved you should be asking more questions of your buddy's bike.

Makes sense. I only know it was same day same dyno and we both have a full exhaust with sprint filter.

Thank you so much skydork!

 

[SkyDork]

Makes sense. I only know it was same day same dyno and we both have a full exhaust with sprint filter.

Thank you so much skydork!

Just enjoy the ride!

 

[SeventeenRR]

hell if you've got a buddy with the same bike and similar mods, and you two are a similar weight, run em. 2nd gear 60 pull. If he puts bus lengths on you there might be differences to look into, but I have a feeling that wont be the case.

 

[PHninja]

hell if you've got a buddy with the same bike and similar mods, and you two are a similar weight, run em. 2nd gear 60 pull. If he puts bus lengths on you there might be differences to look into, but I have a feeling that wont be the case.

That's my next step ! Thanks

 

[mte78]

My buddy's 16 zx10r showing 193 wheel horsepower on same day same dyno. 🤷‍♂️

 

[PHninja]

View attachment 447161

I was very sad...but I can sleep now thanks to skyDork

 

[SkyDork]

For more info posted in a another thread...

Just about every dyno in the industry displays higher than actual numbers. The history of that goes back a long way (the mid 80's), but at this point high numbers have become an industry standard and machines are (software) calibrated to display a wheel HP number PLUS a certain % (we will call that the "industry standard"... it's very close to what predicted driveline losses should be), and then a correction factor on top of that. I can actually turn the industry standard off on my dyno.... it doesn't matter to me. But if I do, and now the customer thinks his brand new ZX10R makes "only" 150hp stock, and maybe 170ish after a flash/pipe; he will be in denial and just go to another dyno/forum/expert to get the number they think they should have. It's depressing, but it's so wide spread that everyone has to do it to be "on par" with everyone else. Actual, real wheel HP numbers can be calculated easily on my dyno, but no one would believe them after 35+ years of misinformation. At the end of the day, though, it doesn't actually matter what number it says so much as what it says before and after. It's a comparative tool, not an outright measuring stick. And you are spot on with them being able to be manipulated... that extends to things like tire pressures, engine temperatures, strap technique... there are lots of ways to skew results if you are not careful and consistent. It gets even worse when you start playing with forced induction......

Sadly, the only correction factor I can run on mine I believe is STD, not SAE... that accounts for another 4% or so... and we really don't account for humidity (being in the high desert that's not much of an issue). Temperature is the big bastard and accounts for most of the DA/CF on any given day outside of the static elevation. I always explain all these things to customers, but it can get lost in the sauce with the excitment of being in the room and seeing all the numbers. I will say that this particular dyno is extremely repeatable, and by applying correction factors appropriately the same bike will make within 1% of its power in wildly different atmospheric conditions on runs that are months apart. I keep a pretty big library of comparative runs too, so that bike-to-bike comparisons are valid. I don't like to say "X bike makes Y more power", but rather prefer to say "X bike makes y% more power"... it gives a good real world comparison.

 

[PHninja]

For more info posted in a another thread...

Thank you

 

[Southwest_Ninja]

PHninja,

I am relatively new here myself and Sky knows his stuff. As does SeventeenRR, mpp12, MasterArts, and uTripin. Dyno to dyno aside, I focused on my before and after numbers after receiving valuable guidance. My before was 172.4. After was 196.8. Despite the dyno wars, it was still an increase of 24.4 hp. One dyno may say 196.8 while another may read 187.9. Try not to get caught up in that. But since you are curious, make note of all your mods from this point forward; what you added, the difference in output, how much weight you removed, how much you added, etc.

I recently got myself a Dragy to log my times and I logged a worst 60-130 of 7.23s. I recently focused on the advice I received here on the forum (position, technique, shifting) and I dropped from 7.23s down to 5.67s with no modification (just position, technique, and shifting). That's an improvement of 1.56 seconds alone!! It may not be record-breaking, but it clearly shows I am improving my skill.

Just something to consider.

 

[PHninja]

PHninja,

I am relatively new here myself and Sky knows his stuff. As does SeventeenRR, mpp12, MasterArts, and uTripin. Dyno to dyno aside, I focused on my before and after numbers after receiving valuable guidance. My before was 172.4. After was 196.8. Despite the dyno wars, it was still an increase of 24.4 hp. One dyno may say 196.8 while another may read 187.9. Try not to get caught up in that. But since you are curious, make note of all your mods from this point forward; what you added, the difference in output, how much weight you removed, how much you added, etc.

I recently got myself a Dragy to log my times and I logged a worst 60-130 of 7.23s. I recently focused on the advice I received here on the forum (position, technique, shifting) and I dropped from 7.23s down to 5.67s with no modification (just position, technique, and shifting). That's an improvement of 1.56 seconds alone!! It may not be record-breaking, but it clearly shows I am improving my skill.

Just something to consider.

Thank you. I'm waiting on better weather to get her out and start practicing riding positions for better aerodynamics.
My friend was telling me I get more power with my traction control turned off 🤷‍♂️. I guess I'm going to try everything and see how that goes

 

[PHninja]

I think I could get better with a better flash/tuning . I dont think my local shop has alot of experience on new bikes. And for sure my riding position is slowing me down too

 

[PHninja]

I got another friend with a zx10rr. His bike got some work from a guy named nick in Florida we started at 60 in 2nd gear.. he makes me feel super slow. Like I have a ninja 400
I'm changing my 16t front sproket with the original sproket and I will try again

 

[Southwest_Ninja]

I got another friend with a zx10rr. His bike got some work from a guy named nick in Florida we started at 60 in 2nd gear.. he makes me feel super slow. Like I have a ninja 400
I'm changing my 16t front sproket with the original sproket and I will try again

If you currently have a 16T, my understanding is the 16T shifts the RPM band up sooner, which provides a great (faster) launch at 60 compared to a 17T. Such as, in 2nd Gear, a 17T may show 6,000 RPMs whereas a 16T may show 7500 RPMs. I still have my stock 17T and will possibly go down to a 16T for greater launch if/when I feel comfortable.

 

[SeventeenRR]

I got another friend with a zx10rr. His bike got some work from a guy named Nick in Florida we started at 60 in 2nd gear.. he makes me feel super slow. Like I have a ninja 400
I'm changing my 16t front sprocket with the original sprocket and I will try again

Probably Nicks performance tuning. By all accounts, they're stand up guys and good tuners, lots of experience roll racing which seems to be what the Florida boys do most of. The zx gains a ton from just ETV and fueling, and then some of the little stuff can add a bit more power. If your local shop doesn't have much experience tuning current-gen liter bikes you're probably missing out on quite a bit. Mind posting up a pic of the whole dyno chart, and does he pull on you on off the line or on the big end? Nicks also does a lot of live tuning if I remember correctly, so their maps should be accurate for fueling with at-speed intake air, where if your local dyno only did it on the dyno you could end up with an AFR off quite a bit.