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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay my dyno tune at the shop I chose was not too impressive. Jardine Rt1 slip on, k&N, Custom map, AIS blocked and hose removed, flies adjusted for less engine braking. Without PC3 and k&N filter still in bike was getting 115 miles before fuel light came on with blue flame exiting pipe on gear changes and decel. Now getting 80 miles to the tank bike no popping and is running smoother but now off throttle to on the throttle slight hesitation in between 6.5 to 8k in second gear cant really pin point could be still lean in that area with throttle position.

I have saved the custom map and tried the other slip on maps from power commander the map that has seemed to clean up the off to on throttle in the midrange seems to be the TI Force map, Arrows slip on map seemed to give best acceleration but still had that annoying hesitation in midrange from off throttle to back on it.

Is this mileage about right? Hesistation common on Gen 1's any suggestions would be great at this point? Love the bike and have never owned a liter bike except for an FZ1. :mrgreen:

oh and its 153 at the wheel. Also the valves were checked two out of 16 slightly tight not bad. cam chain and timing was fine.
 

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the DJ maps you download off there website is junk... if you had the bike dyno tune i would take it back to the tuner and have him look at the AFR bc it sounds like she's lean in the midrange and he should be able to fix that problem for you.
 

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Supercharged Mod
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Not lean. More likely, obnoxiously rich at part throttle.

Very few "custom map" shops have the knowledge or the time to be able to set up part-throttle operation properly. Of those who do have the knowledge, very few customers (you) would be willing to pay the true cost of doing this calibration.

It needs to be leaned out at part throttle ... by a lot.

Take a look at the map that you have. If the map that you have is not almost filled with -20 to -30 numbers throughout zero through 10% throttle, it's rich.

There are several threads in which this has been discussed before.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies. Its funny I had my buddy ride it and he couldnt tell. I know what I feel and what the bike did prior to mods. It is running rich. Why else would the fuel light come on at 80 miles regardless of riding. Thanks for the tips. I called him already and he wasnt too willing on adjusting it for me in the mid range. Luckily it was just a $175 hit and not $300 dollars other shops charge around here for dyno time. I will just wait and see I am switching pipes and going with an RS3 Yosh.

good observation gofaster that is rich not the lean most of the values are positive not negative. hmmm? learning i will take a look at the ti force map and compare the other 3 to back up the subtractions. Like everything else with the bike is great the other services to it improved it but this is the black eye.

so simple process of understanding that positive values is adding fuel and subtracting is leaning out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Some full system maps have more negative values at part throttle. I thought even the 110 to 115 miles at fuel light was running rich. that was before pc3 was added are these first gens just a different animal as to other 1000's in this era?
 

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Supercharged Mod
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You will do better yourself than any "custom map" place would ever do.

Subtract 10 (in absolute terms) from all number in your 0% throttle column all the way from 1250 rpm to redline. By "in absolute terms" it's obvious that 12 minus 10 is 2, but 6 minus 10 is -4 and -8 minus 10 is -18.

Do the same for 2%, and 5%. Subtract 5 (in absolute terms) from all the numbers in the 20% throttle column. Don't touch anything 1000 rpm or below to preserve starting, and don't touch 40% throttle and above anywhere.

Now go ride, and see what it does, and take note if there are any hesitations or flat spots that would be indicative of a lean misfire. Chances are, at this point, it will run *better* by doing this.

If there is no indication of being too lean then repeat the same procedure. Subtract another 10 from 0%, 2%, 5%, and 10% throttle and another 5 from 20% throttle.

Eventually (possibly after the second time, almost certainly after the third time) you'll find combinations of throttle and RPM where it just doesn't feel right. Soggy, unresponsive, indications of lean misfire. If you notice this, take note of the RPM range at which it occurs and then get the bike back to somewhere you can adjust the map (might be an idea to carry the laptop with you) and try not to run it at that RPM range for any length of time.

Since you know it was okay in the previous setting and is now not okay in a certain RPM range, go halfway in between: In the RPM range in question (and ONLY in the RPM range where there is evidence of lean stumbling or misfire!), add 5 (in absolute terms, remember, -22 plus 5 is -17) to 0, 2, 5, 10% throttle and add 2 to 20%.

Then repeat your test ride and keep doing the same thing. Zero in on the part-throttle settings that are just short of feeling too lean (flat spots, hesitation, etc). Make smaller and smaller adjustments in narrower RPM ranges as you go.

Now, add 2 to the entire 0, 2, 5, 10% columns and 1 to the 20% column. This is just enough to get it from the just-short-of-lean-misfire, to very close to best BSFC and throttle response, and adds a little margin of safety against having a tank of fuel with too much ethanol in it or some other condition that could lean it out unexpectedly.

You will NOT hurt the engine by using lean cruise at light engine load. There is too little load on the engine to generate enough heat for causing burned valves or pistons. There is too little cylinder pressure at part load to cause harmful detonation. If anything, running it in lean cruise will result in less fuel washdown of cylinder walls and less fuel dilution of the engine oil.

If you have really fancy instrumentation, you could set it up for "lean of peak" operation the way small aircraft can - here's more info on it: http://www.mooneyland.com/lean_of_peak.htm

We have the advantage of liquid cooling, that the aircraft engines generally don't have. We don't have to worry about cylinder head temperature the way they do. Quote from that article is really pertinent, though: "It's a little more work to set up for proper LOP operation; but well worth it in the pocket book for fuel and even engine longevity in many cases."
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks for the wealth of info gofaster. truly have helped me better understand the values on the table. :)

oh the other mod done was a TRE. Maybe thats effecting this condition even more?
 

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Supercharged Mod
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If you map it for real world conditions, the TRE shouldn't matter. Personally, I don't have one, but I took the secondary throttle plates completely out.

edit: One other small thing - results. With 17/46 dragstrip gearing and with a SpeedoHealer correcting for the gearing and for the stock speedo error, I can usually get 230-ish km (145-ish mi) to low fuel light. In reality the distance on the ground is 7% more because I took the factory speedo error into account - that's 250 km / 155-ish miles to low fuel light ... and the engine oil doesn't stink like fuel when changing it (less oil dilution) and throttle response is impeccable. Only downside was the amount of work that it took to get to that point.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
10/4 its all mapping then. well i will wait a bit when new slip comes which should be tomm. dont know when i will get to it but i will put that on and see if that stumble is in the mid range with ti force map and take some fuel out and not touch 40% throttle and above. the condition is definately happening off throttle and steady back on in the 6k to 8k range. so it should be throttle low throttle position fuel tables. Sweet buddy u made me feel at home on this board. :)
 

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If you map it for real world conditions, the TRE shouldn't matter. Personally, I don't have one, but I took the secondary throttle plates completely out.

edit: One other small thing - results. With 17/46 dragstrip gearing and with a SpeedoHealer correcting for the gearing and for the stock speedo error, I can usually get 230-ish km (145-ish mi) to low fuel light. In reality the distance on the ground is 7% more because I took the factory speedo error into account - that's 250 km / 155-ish miles to low fuel light ... and the engine oil doesn't stink like fuel when changing it (less oil dilution) and throttle response is impeccable. Only downside was the amount of work that it took to get to that point.

I'm tuning the same way and I'm also getting similar mileage on my 3d gen,but I'm using a different way of getting there since I don't rely on feel but I'm datalogging with Bazzaz/Z-AFM and then pass all the trims to the race ECU,so when I'm done I can completely remove the Bazzaz/Z-AFM...

I'm always using 100 octane pump gas which is available here,and I can get approximately 220-230 kms out of my 17lt gas tank. So I suspect GoFaster is tuning a bit leaner than me :mrgreen: And that's not with concervative riding,just normal everyday riding to work and back and some WOT runs in between...

Lean misfires start at about 15.5-16 AFR but I'm not running that lean anywhere,my leanest is stoich 14.7 and 13.3-13.4 WOT... By doing this you will also notice that your exhaust tip will eventually "clean" from unburnt fuel residue... :thumbsup:

Dream setup would be 4 λ + 4 egt sensors on each cylinder and individual cylinder tuning :badteeth:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
okay guys huge update!! And i feel like an idiot for not looking into this more and for anyone else struggling with mapping. The exhaust cables were still attached even to this aftermarket Jardine bolt on. Although I bought the bike used. The cables were not eliminated and I knew they were not and through this process I did not realize how much difference it does make to remove them. ( Still left the servo motor attached). :)

Anyhow the thought came to me this morning to remove them. So what I did was just feel the pressure of air coming through the exhaust before removal. So I got a gauge of the exit flow. Then I removed the cables started the bike and lo and behold a freaking wind tunnel of air exiting pipe not like before. So the air flow mixture was way off with custom map. Now the midrange has cleaned up no stumble at all. Bike idles better less noise from motor. Sounds way better!! So yes newb alert!! lol!! Now Im so freaking happy with this thing. I will report the fuel mileage later. This tank was just playing with some slip maps. Because I do still feel the custom map is still useless because it was mapped with those exhaust cables attached and they clearly effected air flow in low rpm and mid range 8k. Up top feels better as well. Hard to keep front wheel down. So far arrow map and ti force still slightly better than the two brothers map but now understanding the table i can make gofaster's tweeks to it.

Happy 4th of July Board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woooo hoooo!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Supercharged Mod
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Having the cables connected will make a slight difference at part throttle and lower revs. The servo opens up completely at higher revs anyway.

Unless you do what my buddy Wayne did with his YZF750 years ago ...

Why the heck is it running OK at lower revs and then shutting down at 7000 rpm?

... because he had the EXUP cables connected backwards so that the EXUP was open at part throttle and lower revs, and then closed at 7000 rpm under load!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
most of the problems were low rpm to mid range. i guess with cables it was activating and deactivating and with the fueling in the mid it was effecting it. now its butter and just needs minor tweaks. just having them removed is way better. for me im satisfied. :) Thanks for all the input guys and gofaster you especially. :))
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i was in my favorite canyon after the initial tune at shop and with cables attached this perticular canyon i was in between 6 and 9k. and somewhere in there slight hesitation from off throttle to back on. exiting the corners hard sucked!! now no hiccups. i will not be putting those cables back on as long as i have the bike. for future bikes if i change the stock set up which i usually do i will remove them everytime now.
 
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