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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Narrowing my sights on a 2016 ZX-10R/ABS in KRT livery but have a few questions first before I write the check.

I normally take most magazine reviews with a grain of salt as a lot comes down to subjective opinions; but when every review I read says the same things, then I begin to pay attention.

I've heard these themes over and over again:

Stock, the '16 is gutless below 9000 rpm.

ABS brakes increase stopping distance noticeably.

The quickshifter delays feeding back in throttle after an upshift.

The front Brembos lack stopping power compared to the older Gen 4 setup.

Throttle off-on transitions are very abrupt with the ride-by-wire throttle setup.

Traction Control is not consistent, several testers complained of being "kicked" out of the saddle when a rear end slide ensued and TC was slow to intervene.

Cockpit ergonomics are cramped for over 6 footers, high pegs and a short reach to the clip-ons. I'm 6'3 so this is a concern.

If you own a Gen 5 I would appreciate your honest opinions/feedback/comments.

Thanks for keeping any fan boy responses to yourself, e.g., since I bought this machine, it must be absolutely the finest motorcycle ever created. I tend to ignore this type of response as they are obviously biased, unrealistic and non-objective, no machine is ever going to be perfect.
 

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beside ABC and 6 footer ,which i don't know; everything else you said is correct . if you want to keep everything stock.

on my bike the sprockets are changed for better lower power , ECU flashed and modified throttle map for transition , master cylinder replace for better stopping. Rear set for better adjustment.

I haven't experience any bad thing with TC yet. overall love the bike, it is faster then my 2011 zx10 and handles lot better ,even though the 2011 was highly modified with ohlins and shock link.
 

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I believe most would agree, who know about these things, that in every possible way, the Gen 5 is the better race/track bike. However you will be spending some good time getting it setup and ironing out the gremlins.

To me the biggest problem is going to be your ride-by-wire fueling. The hardware and software controlling these things may not be capable of being adjusted/calibrated to eliminate the stalling and other issues present on the OEM bike.

I suspect on the race versions much is replaced, up to and including throttle position sensors, kick motors, and the ECU.

If I am still riding superbikes in 3 1/2 years when my 5 year warrany expires on my Gen 4, and this stuff is worked out, then I'll likely consider a Gen 5. The Gen 4 is a terrific streetbike but now outdated for the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
these things may not be capable of being adjusted/calibrated to eliminate the stalling and other issues present on the OEM bike.
Thanks to all for your experience based and unbiased inputs, that is the type of information I was looking for.

@Whitefang....I am not familiar with the stalling issue, please educate me on this subject.

I am aware of the ongoing CCT issues with Gen 5, had the same problem with my Gen 4 and the fix is relatively simple.

Any other issues/problems with the Gen 5 I am not aware of?

Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, the abrupt fly-by-wire throttle is really the only issue of concern to me, the rest of that can be fixed.
 

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Narrowing my sights on a 2016 ZX-10R/ABS in KRT livery but have a few questions first before I write the check.

I normally take most magazine reviews with a grain of salt as a lot comes down to subjective opinions; but when every review I read says the same things, then I begin to pay attention.

I've heard these themes over and over again:

Stock, the '16 is gutless below 9000 rpm.
Eh not really. But gutless isn't a very descriptive word either. My 2015 R1 makes more power under 9,000 rpms. But not enough to really notice except on corner exits.

ABS brakes increase stopping distance noticeably.
Depends on what application you are trying to use ABS on. On the street it will help you stop faster and more controlled because it is tied into the IMU with traction control. So the bike will not stoppie or lock up either wheel. On the track, not so much.

The quickshifter delays feeding back in throttle after an upshift.
The quick shifter is smoother and less intrusive than my 2015 R1. It works flawlessly. I would recommend getting a flash for the clutchless/autoblip down shifts. Really makes riding the track that much easier. I will say the Ducati quick shifter is smoother.

The front Brembos lack stopping power compared to the older Gen 4 setup.
Never ridden a gen 4, but the m50 calipers on the gen 5 are the top of the line production brembo's. They come on the high end itailian bikes. They are a HUGE improvement over the 2015 R1's brakes. They don't have any wooden feel. The brembo master cylinder (rcs 17) really helps that.
Throttle off-on transitions are very abrupt with the ride-by-wire throttle setup.
It is not that bad. But this is all relative. A flash will help smooth it out.

Traction Control is not consistent, several testers complained of being "kicked" out of the saddle when a rear end slide ensued and TC was slow to intervene.
It depends on how fast of a rider you are. On the street it is great. On the track I ride with it in the least intrusive mode and it has made me faster.

Cockpit ergonomics are cramped for over 6 footers, high pegs and a short reach to the clip-ons. I'm 6'3 so this is a concern.
This will be true of all 1000 cc super bikes. Give or take an inch here or there. But it can be sorted out with rear sets etc.

If you own a Gen 5 I would appreciate your honest opinions/feedback/comments.

Thanks for keeping any fan boy responses to yourself, e.g., since I bought this machine, it must be absolutely the finest motorcycle ever created. I tend to ignore this type of response as they are obviously biased, unrealistic and non-objective, no machine is ever going to be perfect.
Bottom line I cannot compare a gen 5 to a gen 4. But I will tell you this I am faster around the tracks I ride with the zx10 than the R1 (a few seconds lol). From everything I have read, all the bikes in the zx10r class will exhibit the issues you speak of. Some to a more extent than others. All these bikes are so close in terms of handling, IMU, and ergonomics that it really comes down to preferences. Hope this helps.
 

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My riding on the 2016 so far has been very limited. I have a few street rides in and 1 trackday coaching. But below are my responses. I'll add in some others as I have several friends that have been racing all year on the same bike. So I'll add some of their feedback.

Narrowing my sights on a 2016 ZX-10R/ABS in KRT livery but have a few questions first before I write the check.

I normally take most magazine reviews with a grain of salt as a lot comes down to subjective opinions; but when every review I read says the same things, then I begin to pay attention.

I've heard these themes over and over again:

Stock, the '16 is gutless below 9000 rpm. True, if you plan to leave it stock, this is a concern. After exhaust and flash it makes more power than my 13 did, and you feel it, throughout.

ABS brakes increase stopping distance noticeably. Don't have the ABS model, sorry.

The quickshifter delays feeding back in throttle after an upshift. Stock, yes it did and it was bothersome. But after a flash, that's gone.

The front Brembos lack stopping power compared to the older Gen 4 setup.Haven't noticed this, I will know more after this weekends race. Others have said they felt the OEM set up was better on their gen 5 than their Brembo set up (rotors, calipers and master) on their gen 4 - but he did move his master over to the gen 5.

Throttle off-on transitions are very abrupt with the ride-by-wire throttle setup. Yes very, but is tuned out with a little patience. My Gen4 had the same problem and I tuned it out.

Traction Control is not consistent, several testers complained of being "kicked" out of the saddle when a rear end slide ensued and TC was slow to intervene. I've heard the opposite, that it is smoother than the Gen4, less intrusive and I've seen and heard several people say the Gen5 manages the rear tire better than any bike they've had. One buddy, one of top experts in FL said he's going to pay for this bike in what he saves in tires this year alone.

Cockpit ergonomics are cramped for over 6 footers, high pegs and a short reach to the clip-ons. I'm 6'3 so this is a concern.Yes, the OEM clip-ons start from in the middle of the fork tubes. I was going to leave them but I noticed this too, so I changed them to Woodcrafts off my Gen4 and all was normal again.

If you own a Gen 5 I would appreciate your honest opinions/feedback/comments.

Thanks for keeping any fan boy responses to yourself, e.g., since I bought this machine, it must be absolutely the finest motorcycle ever created. I tend to ignore this type of response as they are obviously biased, unrealistic and non-objective, no machine is ever going to be perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Outstanding, thanks for all the great information!
 

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just for your information everything can be adjusted on this bike with right tool, here is my ETV map on 2nd gear which fixed the ON/OFF problem with the throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's good to know Chiffeee.
 

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Stock, the '16 is gutless below 9000 rpm.

ABS brakes increase stopping distance noticeably.

The quickshifter delays feeding back in throttle after an upshift.

The front Brembos lack stopping power compared to the older Gen 4 setup.

Throttle off-on transitions are very abrupt with the ride-by-wire throttle setup.

Traction Control is not consistent, several testers complained of being "kicked" out of the saddle when a rear end slide ensued and TC was slow to intervene.

Cockpit ergonomics are cramped for over 6 footers, high pegs and a short reach to the clip-ons. I'm 6'3 so this is a concern.
My feedback basis use of my Gen5 on the streets and the track

1. Actual power is all above 8k rpm in stock guise. Gets a bit frustrating at times but I have started to tune my riding accordingly now
2. Never felt any issue with the quickshifter.
3. Yes the brakes could have been better but then i might be nitpicking. But a friend's daytona 675R with Brembos and RJL pads felt way superior to my stock Brembos.
4. In F power mode yes the on-off can be a bit twitchy. Not a deal breaker but could have been smoother.
5. If you are on anything other than slicks then keep the TC on mode 2 at best. Mode 1 can induce a scare or two. I err on the side of caution until i can predict how she will behave during a slide.
6. I am 6 feet tall and the cockpit super comfy for me. The rearsets are quite high but that hasnt been a cause of any discomfort so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
5. If you are on anything other than slicks then keep the TC on mode 2 at best. Mode 1 can induce a scare or two.
Thanks for your input Vroomshankar. Do you have ABS brakes?

Anyone else having issues with the rear end slides in TC level 1?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I put a deposit on a non-ABS in the KRT colors yesterday, pick it up in the morning, sure hope I am doing the right thing.

All of this talk of issues with this machine has me feeling a bit of trepidation right now.
 
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I put a deposit on a non-ABS in the KRT colors yesterday, pick it up in the morning, sure hope I am doing the right thing.

All of this talk of issues with this machine has me feeling a bit of trepidation right now.
You're good the bike is awesome. Give the brakes a day to bed they were a tad spongy at first.
 

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I put a deposit on a non-ABS in the KRT colors yesterday, pick it up in the morning, sure hope I am doing the right thing.

All of this talk of issues with this machine has me feeling a bit of trepidation right now.
There is no place for second guessing! Fucking congratulations! Ride the shit out of it and enjoy it!
 

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There is no place for second guessing! Fucking congratulations! Ride the shit out of it and enjoy it!
Yep, just buy the bike and get it figured out. Doubt you will be disappointed but expect to spend a good deal of time sorting it, every bike is like that.
 

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Grats on the purchase. I'll still throw in my 2c.

I'm juuust over 6'2" and have long beautiful dancers legs. I love the feel of the bike, yes the rearsets are high, but no more than most CBR's, you feel very much like a jockey.
Zero problem reading the dash for me, everything is within easy view. I personally prefer the compact feeling as it gives me a nice agile mindset.

100% drop a tooth on the front. I commute every day and it makes all the difference.

To assist with the choppy throttle, I ride with the KEBC on L 24/7 now. It's the Engine Braking Limiter, and it noticeably reduces the snatchiness in the throttle if you're unable to get a tune straight off the bat.
In the mountains, it's near unridable in 2nd gear because of the chop, with the Engine Braking thing on though it's beautiful.

TC definitely could improve, I've been kicked out of the seat and landed on the tank with it on 2. Mind you this was on a very cold morning on worn out super corsas sp's. I was actually on the way to get a new set of tyres.

The brakes could be improved yes. I don't know if I've just gotten used to them, or it's the way they are set up, but they feel more user friendly. I can tell you now though I can pull up pretty fast with em, and the ABS has saved me once so far from slamming into the back of a van. It'll hover the rear just off the ground under full braking.

For a bloke your height though, GET A DOUBLE BUBBLE SCREEN. Holy sh*t the wind blasts me non-stop in the chest. Only thing I hate.

EDIT: I wouldn't trade mine for anything. 12,000km and I love it more than the day I got it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19

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Grats on the purchase. I'll still throw in my 2c.

I'm juuust over 6'2" and have long beautiful dancers legs. I love the feel of the bike, yes the rearsets are high, but no more than most CBR's, you feel very much like a jockey.
Zero problem reading the dash for me, everything is within easy view. I personally prefer the compact feeling as it gives me a nice agile mindset.

100% drop a tooth on the front. I commute every day and it makes all the difference.

To assist with the choppy throttle, I ride with the KEBC on L 24/7 now. It's the Engine Braking Limiter, and it noticeably reduces the snatchiness in the throttle if you're unable to get a tune straight off the bat.
In the mountains, it's near unridable in 2nd gear because of the chop, with the Engine Braking thing on though it's beautiful.

TC definitely could improve, I've been kicked out of the seat and landed on the tank with it on 2. Mind you this was on a very cold morning on worn out super corsas sp's. I was actually on the way to get a new set of tyres.

The brakes could be improved yes. I don't know if I've just gotten used to them, or it's the way they are set up, but they feel more user friendly. I can tell you now though I can pull up pretty fast with em, and the ABS has saved me once so far from slamming into the back of a van. It'll hover the rear just off the ground under full braking.

For a bloke your height though, GET A DOUBLE BUBBLE SCREEN. Holy sh*t the wind blasts me non-stop in the chest. Only thing I hate.

EDIT: I wouldn't trade mine for anything. 12,000km and I love it more than the day I got it.
Thanks for sharing, I'm looking forward to riding it home tomorrow and will try to do some back roads and see how she handles. Thanks for the EBC tip, I'll give that a try and come to think of it, my new 959 Panigale exhibits the same irritable snatching just off closed throttle, I'll need to check what level I have the EBC set at, I believe it's still in factory default level 2 of 3.:beer2:
 
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