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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it finally clear what’s the best ignition timing for the Gen 5?
I’ve read that stock timing is the best, but that also some tuners adjusted and got hp gains. So this is confusing af!
 

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The GEN 5 ignition isn't retarded like the GEN 4 is. If you're tuning with a butt dyno, just leave the stock values alone
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info. But there’s got to be at least a patern or a general rule on the Gen 5 ignition, there’s a lot of companies selling reflash and offering ignition timing adjustments.
 

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Nope. It varies based on the bike and the bikes mods and possibly elevation. Some guys see that you need to retard timing and some people have had good luck adding a few degrees. It depends on the bike.
 

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These two points x 100.

Every bike will respond to timing maps differently. Motors respond differently to AFR, timing, modifications, fuel, etc. Just throwing or pulling points of timing based on what such and such says isn't going to do anything for you. On my personal gen 5, I have timing added and pulled - on others bikes I have no timing added period while I have timing taken out on others. Every bike will respond differently.

Perfect example; Rickey Gadson called me one day when he was working on a gen 5 for someone he was working with. I said, I don't want to give you my timing maps simply because there is such a variation bike to bike based on the several I have worked with. He had tuned the bike to make peak power across the RPM range at a bunch of different throttle positions by AFR. He was on me and on me so I finally gave in and said fine, I will send it to you, but it is on you if the motor pops :D Sent him my timing map from my personal bike and he plugged it in - bike instantly lost power. What that says is the timing is too far advanced and beyond MBT for his setup and actually predetonating (knocking). If you were to look up some of the maps made by the N/A guys that are running 9/10s blasts down in Florida, they are actually running stock timing maps; some even less than stock. More timing =/= More Power

Timing is one of those things that are best set on the dyno (or with a rear wheel torque cell and data logger) so you can see the actual output and observe power output compared to timing adjustments to determine MBT. Just doing it by feel or by what someone says is an express ticket to heart break. This is often why you will see canned flashes vary so much in power output from two bikes using the same canned flash - 1) The AFR is almost certainly off if the fueling was adjusted in the ECU 2) The bike does not like the timing map if adjusted in the ECU. Every bike will respond to tuning parameter changes differently even if those two bikes have identical modifications. This cannot be stated enough.

Additionally, like Bun1t said, the 5th gen is not retarded in the timing department like the 4th gen was (along with STP restrictions). So if you're not making timing adjustments on the dyno for your motor, your mods and your fuel - things will not go well. Best to keep them stock or if you're making pulls on a drag strip, advance them slowly and look at data logs (if equipped with a data logger) and compare your time/speed between runs. If you start to advance it too far and past MBT, you will see your speed and times come down; dollars to doughnuts if you back it off some, you'll see your time/speed come back up.
Hey Anthony, sending you another question
 

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Thanks for the info. But there’s got to be at least a patern or a general rule on the Gen 5 ignition, there’s a lot of companies selling reflash and offering ignition timing adjustments.
There is saying, sucker born every day. That's why there are so many "companies", cause there are that many suckers.
 

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What Archer said, x10.

Also, what TC said... probably a lot more than x10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks everyone for the help. What’s happening to me is that I got my ecu flashed by a friend tuner and I think he advanced to much. I decreased a few degrees and the bike picked up a couple of miles. But now I got the Woolich autotune and with the afr corrected I feel the bike pinning a little bit but I’m not sure. I’ve been going to the 1/4 mile strip and been doing good times, guess that’s the best dyno. Again thanks for the info.
 

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I saw first hand on my evo when you get a retarded tuner that has no clue what they are doing with timing maps. If you don't have a dyno, leave it alone
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Great, just forgotten about the fuel trim.
afr corrected I feel the bike pinning a little bit but I’m not sure. I’ve been going to the 1/4 mile strip and been doing good times, guess that’s the best dyno. Again thanks for the info.
You won't "feel" any pinging unless something is way far off on the bike be it something like lean misfires or the timing being off. Next time it comes up, pull your plugs and look at how they look, that will tell you quite a bit about how the motor is running. One thing you may want to look at is the auto tune values and cycle the logs by gear. You could have the AFR doing something odd in a different gear, so say it's steady at one AFR from X to Y MPH but then once you get into a certain gear at a certain speed, it could be fluctuating there. You can then use the trim map to effectively tune it by gear and correct that offset. This was something we did with Gadson on his H2 and he ended up picking up like 5MPH simply from correcting the AFR per gear.
 

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That's a lot more timing then I'd feel comfortable running without more octane.

I know archer had good luck with more timing and good fuel but in my expirience I wouldn't go that high at least in the mid range. I start dropping mine at about 8k.

From what I've seen, you don't need additional timing at peak torque, you need a tad less to see more.. and depending on the variables, you'll want between 31ish and 34 or 35 up top.

I find it hard to believe that you've already pulled a few degrees out from the original map... I'd try pulling a few more and see what she does. Do I see 39 in there (I'm on my cell phone)... I wouldn't that personally, eveb with the good 93 I can get locally. I haven't seen any proof that you make any more power with that much, and then add the risk of detention.. yikes
 

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That's a lot more timing then I'd feel comfortable running without more octane.

I know archer had good luck with more timing and good fuel but in my expirience I wouldn't go that high at least in the mid range. I start dropping mine at about 8k.

From what I've seen, you don't need additional timing at peak torque, you need a tad less to see more.. and depending on the variables, you'll want between 31ish and 34 or 35 up top.

I find it hard to believe that you've already pulled a few degrees out from the original map... I'd try pulling a few more and see what she does. Do I see 39 in there (I'm on my cell phone)... I wouldn't that personally, eveb with the good 93 I can get locally. I haven't seen any proof that you make any more power with that much, and then add the risk of detention.. yikes


I can’t see his map clear enough on my phone but after I had the thinner head gasket installed, the Kawasaki Thailand Team tuned my zx10rr and put +4-5 degrees at 100% throttle on 95RON (91 for US guys) pump fuel. That’s the max setting you can go to in the race ecu software.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I can’t see his map clear enough on my phone but after I had the thinner head gasket installed, the Kawasaki Thailand Team tuned my zx10rr and put +4-5 degrees at 100% throttle on 95RON (91 for US guys) pump fuel. That’s the max setting you can go to in the race ecu software.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+4-5??? Please elaborate a little bit more
 
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