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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All!

Has the Gen 5 fly-by-wire snappy throttle issue been worked out yet for most of you who own that bike? I briefly owned a 2014 model and found the throttle to be smooth as butter. Long story short (some of you may have already read it on another thread) the bike was totaled and I'm considering a 2016 model as a replacement or a 2016 ZX6R. I'm just concerned about the snappy throttle issue because one of my biggest pet peeves on bikes is a snappy or abrupt throttle.

Speaking of the 2016 ZX6R, is that using also a fly-by-wire system as well? I was able to test drive a used 2013 ZX6R a few months back and found the throttle to be a bit abrupt on/off compared to my former 2014 ZX10R.

Thanks and looking forward to your feedback.
 

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I have a gen 4 and a gen 5 and I found both of them to have abrupt on off throttle out of the box. Both of mine were made better with tuning. However, my gen 4 still is smoother mid throttle than my gen 5.
 

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I can report owning two g4's, the '11 and the '13 and throttle is normal on both. ofc, this does not mean that the g5 is the same as the g4. Mine were all oem, as in, zero flash or any mods to the engine.
 

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OMG Look at that squid!!
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Woolich will resolve this issue!
 

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Try a 03 636, its snatch city! :deathmetal:
 
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Get the FTECU flash kit like I did. You won't get a smoother throttle then the Graves flash, works amazing.
I had my ECU flashed and the Graves map (along with their LINK exhaust) and the throttle response (with a Motion Pro throttle) is terrific IMO.
 
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Hi ZX10RArcher. If I get a 2016 G5. I would like a completely 1:1 physical to virtual throttle map.

I'd like to try to get what you'd get on an old mechanical carburreted bike, and then if I didn't like that, move to the feel you get from the common physical cable plus STV found on most bikes.

Is that possible with mapping using the Woolwich systems?
 

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@ Archer, i cant believe people in this day/age still would take a canned map over anything custom but its whatever.

Rec'd
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
*long, deep, breath*
Throttle "snatchiness" on the 5th gen is about 95% related to ETV mappings. About 5% is going to relate to fuel decel cut.

For the uninitiated, ETV is basically the "electronic throttle" in relation to the "physical throttle" AKA your wrist. Decel cut is the injectors cutting off when you close the throttle - disabling that allows the injectors to still throw fuel at the motor so the motor doesn't go from feast -> famine -> feast when the throttle on the bike goes on -> off -> on.

For those that don't know (and not many do) ETV maps on the Kawi models are not and cannot be mapped similarly to Yamaha or even the new GSXR 1000/1000R. Just doesn't work that way. For whatever reason, Kawi took a different approach... Yet people still try to map them the same way.

For the record and to be as forthcoming as can be... I obviously sell/distribute Woolich Racing products. On the other hand, I also take in local bikes for tuning and what I get is what I get based on the customer and their purchases. So I have tuned bikes with the other offerings out there. And this is just not on specifically the ZX-10R... I have customers who have had flashes from ___________ and ____________ on different models all to say the same thing; holy crap... Case in point the new R1; be it a "custom flash" from someone or a "race flash" from some supposedly high level shop here or there... It doesn't hold water to a custom ETV map I build for a rider. More specifically, canned mapping offered by such and such. Ask ZXTendencies about what he preferred; his prior R1 flash made by Grave or my flash that we custom suited to him... Not throwing anyone under the bus, just stating the fact that what works for Joe Shmoe may not work for John Smith in differing scenarios and the importance of custom mapping the throttle as to just taking it as is from whoever it is that gives it to you.

I have tuned bikes both on the dyno and more importantly the track, using the "unrestricted" or the "________ exhaust map" customers or friends bring me and they are never right. I put a logger on the bike, record some data, make some ETV adjustments for the rider they go out for another session and they come back in amazed. The throttle feel is crap in canned maps - typically it is all or nothing. And if you only know one config either stock or "flashed" - obviously anything is better than stock for sure.

Problem is, unless you know how Kawi handles the new ETVs or you actually have data logging or even live engine data to see a relation to ETV to TPS, you can make no distinction. Nor can you fine tune the throttle for the specific track/turn/gear/RPM/throttle position.

This is where live engine data/data logging come in handy....
View attachment 403705

Here you can actually see the value of the physical throttle compared to the electronic throttle. When it comes to setting up maps for the track or even the street, this data here is invaluable. Especially when it comes to tuning the throttle for the track and specific sections of them or even the street.
* Are you coming out of T12 in third gear and the front end lifting too much for you killing your drive out of the turn?
** Easy fix, adjust the ETV to dial back the electronic throttle some so it doesn't give the bike as much and maximized drive out
* Are you mad about a laggy throttle in town cruising?
** Easy fix again, adjust the ETV to make it closer to a 1:1 throttle ratio electronically so you don't have to slip the clutch or rev bomb to get going from a stop light
* Additionally in either situation you can monitor and track wheel speed to see if you are actually going faster or just feel like you are.

Summary:
If you want to totally, 100%, completely get rid of the throttle snatchiness you will have to do one of the following as snatchiness to you, may not be snatchiness to another different person or the person that Company A designed their map in mind for...
1) Get a flashing kit yourself and custom tune the ETV maps to you, your situation and your feel (Woolich is the only one with data logs and data recording as shown above so you can see the relation in a visual chart)
2) Take the bike to a shop that has a flashing kit and have them build you a custom ETV map to suit your needs based on your feedback
3) Send it off to be flashed for you and adjust your riding to the throttle that the tuner programmed for you or send it back and forth and hope that between the exchanges of the ECU you get it figured out.

Not here to push one option over the other option (to be frank, I could not care less what option you choose) but speaking from experience on both sides of the fence, nothing will beat a custom ETV map made for specifically for you.
Wow! Thanks ZX10RArcher for the very detailed and informative reply. A lot to digest, but very useful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I can report owning two g4's, the '11 and the '13 and throttle is normal on both. ofc, this does not mean that the g5 is the same as the g4. Mine were all oem, as in, zero flash or any mods to the engine.
Agree with you scout on the gen 4 throttle. I found mine to be perfectly fine OEM for the brief time I owned/rode it. Seems like the gen 5 will need a bit of work post-purchase to get it to my liking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Get the FTECU flash kit like I did. You won't get a smoother throttle then the Graves flash, works amazing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Hey is the FTECU flash kit you are referring to the woolrich one or another brand? Did you do it yourself or had a tuner do it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Found a post by Proteus claiming that on his 2016 ZX10R when he set the EBC on L (for minimum engine braking) it smoothed out the off-on throttle response nicely. Have any of you gen 5 owners tried this and what might be the downside to setting the EBC on L?
 

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No down side setting EBC to low. I did have my ETV set to 100% in every gear all in every cell but it was too aggressive for the street. I used the factory ETV as a starting point and increased most of them to get it the way I like it. To me I felt Gen4 fuel cut was more aggressive than Gen5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No down side setting EBC to low. I did have my ETV set to 100% in every gear all in every cell but it was too aggressive for the street. I used the factory ETV as a starting point and increased most of them to get it the way I like it. To me I felt Gen4 fuel cut was more aggressive than Gen5.
Thanks cwrzx for the input. When you speak of the ETV, are you referring to ECU flash tweaking?
 

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Hey is the FTECU flash kit you are referring to the woolrich one or another brand? Did you do it yourself or had a tuner do it?
I did it myself. Graves let's you have the map free. Just go to the FTECU file manager, download it and send to your bike. Super simple ?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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*long, deep, breath*
Throttle "snatchiness" on the 5th gen is about 95% related to ETV mappings. About 5% is going to relate to fuel decel cut.

For the uninitiated, ETV is basically the "electronic throttle" in relation to the "physical throttle" AKA your wrist. Decel cut is the injectors cutting off when you close the throttle - disabling that allows the injectors to still throw fuel at the motor so the motor doesn't go from feast -> famine -> feast when the throttle on the bike goes on -> off -> on.

For those that don't know (and not many do) ETV maps on the Kawi models are not and cannot be mapped similarly to Yamaha or even the new GSXR 1000/1000R. Just doesn't work that way. For whatever reason, Kawi took a different approach... Yet people still try to map them the same way.

For the record and to be as forthcoming as can be... I obviously sell/distribute Woolich Racing products. On the other hand, I also take in local bikes for tuning and what I get is what I get based on the customer and their purchases. So I have tuned bikes with the other offerings out there. And this is just not on specifically the ZX-10R... I have customers who have had flashes from ___________ and ____________ on different models all to say the same thing; holy crap... Case in point the new R1; be it a "custom flash" from someone or a "race flash" from some supposedly high level shop here or there... It doesn't hold water to a custom ETV map I build for a rider. More specifically, canned mapping offered by such and such. Ask ZXTendencies about what he preferred; his prior R1 flash made by Grave or my flash that we custom suited to him... Not throwing anyone under the bus, just stating the fact that what works for Joe Shmoe may not work for John Smith in differing scenarios and the importance of custom mapping the throttle as to just taking it as is from whoever it is that gives it to you.

I have tuned bikes both on the dyno and more importantly the track, using the "unrestricted" or the "________ exhaust map" customers or friends bring me and they are never right. I put a logger on the bike, record some data, make some ETV adjustments for the rider they go out for another session and they come back in amazed. The throttle feel is crap in canned maps - typically it is all or nothing. And if you only know one config either stock or "flashed" - obviously anything is better than stock for sure.

Problem is, unless you know how Kawi handles the new ETVs or you actually have data logging or even live engine data to see a relation to ETV to TPS, you can make no distinction. Nor can you fine tune the throttle for the specific track/turn/gear/RPM/throttle position.

This is where live engine data/data logging come in handy....
View attachment 403705

Here you can actually see the value of the physical throttle compared to the electronic throttle. When it comes to setting up maps for the track or even the street, this data here is invaluable. Especially when it comes to tuning the throttle for the track and specific sections of them or even the street.
* Are you coming out of T12 in third gear and the front end lifting too much for you killing your drive out of the turn?
** Easy fix, adjust the ETV to dial back the electronic throttle some so it doesn't give the bike as much and maximized drive out
* Are you mad about a laggy throttle in town cruising?
** Easy fix again, adjust the ETV to make it closer to a 1:1 throttle ratio electronically so you don't have to slip the clutch or rev bomb to get going from a stop light
* Additionally in either situation you can monitor and track wheel speed to see if you are actually going faster or just feel like you are.

Summary:
If you want to totally, 100%, completely get rid of the throttle snatchiness you will have to do one of the following as snatchiness to you, may not be snatchiness to another different person or the person that Company A designed their map in mind for...
1) Get a flashing kit yourself and custom tune the ETV maps to you, your situation and your feel (Woolich is the only one with data logs and data recording as shown above so you can see the relation in a visual chart)
2) Take the bike to a shop that has a flashing kit and have them build you a custom ETV map to suit your needs based on your feedback
3) Send it off to be flashed for you and adjust your riding to the throttle that the tuner programmed for you or send it back and forth and hope that between the exchanges of the ECU you get it figured out.

Not here to push one option over the other option (to be frank, I could not care less what option you choose) but speaking from experience on both sides of the fence, nothing will beat a custom ETV map made for specifically for you.
Canned maps work the very well. I'm really happy with all of my bikes that I've installed these maps in. What I really like is that Graves continues to develop their maps and publishes updates.

I was listening to a few top team owners at the COTA race earlier this year discussing mapping and the guy who runs the Westby Yamalube team said he uses a canned map developed by YEC on the Shultz R1 and that a tuner he knows Brian Livengood had spent 2 years developing R1 maps that aren't as good as what he is currently using. Any way the guys started talking about the cost to develop maps. About 200,000.00
to develop a proper base map was the settled number. That's why I get my canned Graves FTECU maps FOC.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
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