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Discussion Starter #1
My Gen 3 won't run for more than one second after starting.
Is that because I don't have a standard dash connected?
Is there a work around for this?
it's in a car, and I've converted the loom.
any help greatly appreciated.
 

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There's not really a whole lot to go with here. The dash not being connected won't cause it to not run, but you'll be hard-pressed to get the fault codes that are active without it.

The engine only needs 3 things to run - air, fuel and fire. I'm guessing the air is fine. Since it pops for a second, the fire is getting there. I'd be looking into why the fuel is not right as the first thing. But it would be more helpful if we knew of any service codes that are active or what else has been used in the car for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There's not really a whole lot to go with here. The dash not being connected won't cause it to not run, but you'll be hard-pressed to get the fault codes that are active without it.

The engine only needs 3 things to run - air, fuel and fire. I'm guessing the air is fine. Since it pops for a second, the fire is getting there. I'd be looking into why the fuel is not right as the first thing. But it would be more helpful if we knew of any service codes that are active or what else has been used in the car for it.
Error codes, great idea, thanks. Any idea where I could hook a light up to get the codes? Bearing in mind that I don't have a dash.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Error codes, great idea, thanks. Any idea where I could hook a light up to get the codes? Bearing in mind that I don't have a dash.
the engine runs fine until the ecu shuts it down. The fuel pump is still running when it stops.
 

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Error codes, great idea, thanks. Any idea where I could hook a light up to get the codes? Bearing in mind that I don't have a dash.
A light? It doesn't work like that. The FI indication light comes off pin 13 to the instrument cluster with pin 11 being the Ground. That only terms the FI/Oil Pressure light on. The code is sent from the ECU as a serial interface. The digital service code value is displayed on the cluster. Unless you can hook up something to decode the serial data stream, connect a working cluster to it, or read the service code directly from the ECU, then you're out of luck. There's nothing to hook a light to.

the engine runs fine until the ecu shuts it down. The fuel pump is still running when it stops.
How have you bypassed the immobilizer? Or are you using it with the amplifier and registered key?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
tha
A light? It doesn't work like that. The FI indication light comes off pin 13 to the instrument cluster with pin 11 being the Ground. That only terms the FI/Oil Pressure light on. The code is sent from the ECU as a serial interface. The digital service code value is displayed on the cluster. Unless you can hook up something to decode the serial data stream, connect a working cluster to it, or read the service code directly from the ECU, then you're out of luck. There's nothing to hook a light to.



How have you bypassed the immobilizer? Or are you using it with the amplifier and registered key?
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Thanks mate. Yes, the immobiliser has been switched off in the ECU. But I think you may have hit on the problem in your note above. If the ECU is looking for an oil pressure go ahead from the dash, but it isn't getting one, it might shut the engine down. Does that sound likely? In which case maybe I can rig an "oil pressure OK" signal back to the ECU via the dash connector? 5v feed plus a resistor or a diode of some value.
 

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tha
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Thanks mate. Yes, the immobiliser has been switched off in the ECU. But I think you may have hit on the problem in your note above. If the ECU is looking for an oil pressure go ahead from the dash, but it isn't getting one, it might shut the engine down. Does that sound likely? In which case maybe I can rig an "oil pressure OK" signal back to the ECU via the dash connector? 5v feed plus a resistor or a diode of some value.
I applaud you for thinking through it like that. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The oil pressure switch is tied directly to the light and there's no ECU input for that. That would be a problem with starting under normal conditions because the pressure doesn't fully develop until the engine is running. The communication is not bi-directional and there's nothing sent from the instrument cluster. The ECU doesn't care about the oil pressure and will operate just fine all the way to seizure. If that light comes on while operating, it should be shutdown with the ignition or kill switch. There's no safeguards otherwise.

I'm glad you bypassed the immobilizer. Was that tested at all before this? It's far-fetched, but it may be possible that didn't take in the reflash and it's still trying to find the amplifier and key. You don't have the tip-over sensor mounted upside down? ;) There's lots of things to try and dig into here with it being in a car and not a bike. The tip-over switch might be one of those things to think about along with the immobilizer.
 

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Theres so much here it could be, seriously, people can throw a thousand possible issues at this thread vainly and watch as you assimilate them process them and spit them out! A modified loom covers all sorts of possible scenarios, we don't even know if it's as simple as you not having the tick over set properly. You come on the forum new member with this! You haven't even checked in and said Hi!
 

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Theres so much here it could be, seriously, people can throw a thousand possible issues at this thread vainly and watch as you assimilate them process them and spit them out! A modified loom covers all sorts of possible scenarios, we don't even know if it's as simple as you not having the tick over set properly. You come on the forum new member with this! You haven't even checked in and said Hi!
Yeah, it's not easy to diagnose like this over the Web without knowing the specifics. It's kind of a disservice not having the cluster connected to see all the indications. I'm just shooting in the dark at the big stuff for him.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I applaud you for thinking through it like that. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The oil pressure switch is tied directly to the light and there's no ECU input for that. That would be a problem with starting under normal conditions because the pressure doesn't fully develop until the engine is running. The communication is not bi-directional and there's nothing sent from the instrument cluster. The ECU doesn't care about the oil pressure and will operate just fine all the way to seizure. If that light comes on while operating, it should be shutdown with the ignition or kill switch. There's no safeguards otherwise.

I'm glad you bypassed the immobilizer. Was that tested at all before this? It's far-fetched, but it may be possible that didn't take in the reflash and it's still trying to find the amplifier and key. You don't have the tip-over sensor mounted upside down? ;) There's lots of things to try and dig into here with it being in a car and not a bike. The tip-over switch might be one of those things to think about along with the immobilizer.
Thanks again. The engine starts, so I don't think the immobiliser is stopping it. Tip over sensor would stop it running as well I believe. I've decided to buy a dash and see if that sorts it out. M
 

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Thanks again. The engine starts, so I don't think the immobiliser is stopping it. Tip over sensor would stop it running as well I believe. I've decided to buy a dash and see if that sorts it out. M
That will help. Remember though, the dash won't solve the problem. There's nothing transmitted from the dash that will prevent the engine from running, but it will help pinpointing and troubleshooting the issue that is causing it hopefully.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks Pal, I really appreciate your help, and your detailed knowledge. I understand that the dash won't make it run, but at least I might get a useful error code or two. Only thing is, I looked through all of the error codes in the manual and can't see anything that would directly cause the issue. Anyway, we'll see what we see in about a week.
If you're interested in the project,
and
 

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Cool little car! It will be fun once you get the motor running. ;)

The service code faults don't specifically indicate a failure to prevent it from running. But remember, it will indicate secondary issues and help you track it down. If the crank position sensor isn't communicating right, then it won't run. Same with the fuel pump relay, or the stick coils. Since you're trying to transplant the motor, it's hard to verify all the different components and wiring that are needed. The dash will at least giving you a look at what service codes are active and eliminate them all from the list of things to check. Assuming that everything is hooked up and in good working order, then you can turn your attention to the more mechanical things like timing, fuel injectors, etc. First things first.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi there. Now have a dash, and am getting the error codes 15 and 23, which is the cam sensor and the atmo pressure sensor. Funnily enough, it runs for longer and stronger without the cam sensor connected, so I guess that's a clue as well. So I'll replace that, and see what we see. I took a video of the dash while I was trying to start it, FYI, but couldn't find a way of loading it onto the forum. Thanks.
 

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Hi there. Now have a dash, and am getting the error codes 15 and 23, which is the cam sensor and the atmo pressure sensor. Funnily enough, it runs for longer and stronger without the cam sensor connected, so I guess that's a clue as well. So I'll replace that, and see what we see. I took a video of the dash while I was trying to start it, FYI, but couldn't find a way of loading it onto the forum. Thanks.
OK, well those are big clues. Are you running the airbox for that motor? That contains the pressure senor and helps adjust the fueling for atmospheric and elevation changes. The cam sensor is the bigger issue. That will certainly cause your issue here as the ECU can't get the timing right without that working. That's the first thing you should address first.
 

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By the way, your dash is upside down and hard to read since I'm not in Australia like you. It's just different down there I guess. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks pal. The atmo sensor on this unit is down near the back of the seat. I'll check to see what's wrong with it. Probably my wiring, as the loom had been chopped off and I had to reconnect it. And I have a new cam sensor on the way. I'm pretty sure the sparks are firing 360 deg out of phase. Have re-checked the cam timing. All OK. A friend has suggested that it might run wasted spark for the first second or so, before referring to the cam sensor for correct phasing. That would explain why it runs better with the sensor disconnected. Anyway, we will soon see.
 

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I don't understand that, if the ecu loses the cam shaft signal while running it continues on memory (last known position) but once the ignition is turned off the ecu loses that and will not allow spark as it doesn't know where the cams are in relation to the crank, when the engine is cranking if it picks up the position again and its relative to the crank position then it will give spark.
 
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