Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Я - Ребен&#108
Joined
·
3,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
YOu would think I should know this answer, but I only change the gearing on my Race ZX10Rs and do a typical -1f/+2r (2011 ZX10R is -2f/+2r).....

I never change my street bike but I see a few of my friends change the rear sprocket only to get an extra bump. They do not change the front sprocket because they do not want to lose top end. (My race bike tops out at 172mph with -1f/+2r).

I guess my question is what are the results if you only do a +2R ?
top end should be the same right?
Will the bike bog down on launches?
do you select different gears now for turns ? like are 3rd gear turns now 2nd gear turns?
Or do I have this backwards and it is more pepy and spools up faster and still have top end?
and not 3rd gear turns are 4th gear turns?


on my street/stock 2011 ZX10R I was debating on going from.
OEM 17f/39r
to
NEW 17f/41r

But again did not want to lose too much fuel economy and top end.

what you guys have for me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
+2 on the rear sprocket will make the bike much easier to ride.Top end will suffer slightly. You will never want to go back to stock gearing again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,504 Posts
Don't matter what sprocket you change. If you gear it for more low end them you will sacrifice a little on the top. I did a -1+1 on my 05 but heard just a -1 on the gen 4 makes a nice combo.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,823 Posts
Don't matter what sprocket you change. If you gear it for more low end them you will sacrifice a little on the top. I did a -1+1 on my 05 but heard just a -1 on the gen 4 makes a nice combo.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
:+1: Changing either of the sprockets will affect your top end. Going up +2 in the rear is the same thing as going -1 on the front sprocket. Roughly. Since the rear sprocket has 2.4 times the amount of teeth on it than the front, you can figure out the ratio to apply. If you gear it for acceleration (front or rear), top speed will drop.

www.gearingcommender.com for all the different scenarios and combos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
I'm running -1 up front I love it. I haven't lost too much top end speed, and I definitely feel a noticeable difference in acceleration and ease of drivability taking off from stop lights and such. I did -1 up front because I just prefer to change the front sprocket instead of the rear.
 

·
Я - Ребен&#108
Joined
·
3,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
:+1: Changing either of the sprockets will affect your top end. Going up +2 in the rear is the same thing as going -1 on the front sprocket. Roughly. Since the rear sprocket has 2.4 times the amount of teeth on it than the front, you can figure out the ratio to apply. If you gear it for acceleration (front or rear), top speed will drop.

www.gearingcommender.com for all the different scenarios and combos.
For some reason I was thinking that changing the front effects the overall engine output more...

So If you wanted more top end then you go smaller on the rear and larger on the front... (not trying to do that...).

I have extra sprockets laying around...guess Ill try them out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I went - 1 on the front and although it was very nice down low and midrange, it suffered up top a lot. I went back to stock. Been contemplating going down in the rear a tooth or two actually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Gearingcommander.com. go there.

I.went -1f+2r on my gen 4 now my true top speed is 181mph with a +500 redline. It is way quicker off the line. Haven't lost much mpg. Maybe -.5-1 mpg on average.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I had a Gen1 and now own a Gen3. I ran and currently run the +2 rear option on both bikes.

I have found that you get the shorter 1st gear, but do not lose a ton of top end. The indicated speed on the speedometer is about +5mph faster than true speed. You get a quicker rev/spool through the gears. All gears will become slightly shorter and mid range will beef up (rev to mph ratio) so take that into consideration for turns.

Examples (for my 2009 ZX10 which is now +2 rear)

Stock gearing 3rd gear 8500rpm=95mph
+2 rear 3rd gear 8500rpm=90mph

Stock 3rd gear speeds: RPM 2450/27, 3700/40, 4900/54, 6100/68, 7300/81, 8600/95, 9800/109

+2 rear 3rd gear speeds: RPM 2450/26, 3700/39, 4900/52, 6100/65, 7300/78, 8600/91, 9800/103

What you can see is that with a +2 rear to maintain the mph you will have a slightly higher rpm rate which keeps you in that mid to high powerband that the ZX10s a known for.

Hope this helps.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,823 Posts
For some reason I was thinking that changing the front effects the overall engine output more...

So If you wanted more top end then you go smaller on the rear and larger on the front... (not trying to do that...).

I have extra sprockets laying around...guess Ill try them out.
Yes, you are correct if you reverse the combination and increase the size of the front and/or decrease the rear size, you gain topspeed sacrificing acceleration. It's the same concept as a 10-speed bike. Power output from the engine is the same no matter what you choose. You're changing the mechanical advantage of that power output through the final drive gearing.

There are limits to this. The chain size and amount of axle adjustment make it so that you can't go really big on the rear or too small on the front without needing a new chain. Most people go -1/+1 or -1/+2 because it gives the same amount of regearing while using the same length chain. It's also cheaper to replace the front sprocket than the rear. Either will affect the acceleration/top speed. You get more dramatic changes just by doing the front sprocket because the size is more drastically affected by the teeth count.

Figure for ever tooth you go down on the front sprocket, your cruising RPM for all gears will be roughly 500rpm higher than stock. Add another 250rpm for every tooth you go up on the rear. So if you went -1/+2, cruising down the highway you'll be 1000rpm more at a given speed than before. You'll hit redline sooner, which lowers your top speed. But you'll gain a big mechanical advantage and be able to get there much quicker.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,998 Posts
I ran down one in the front on my Gen 1. I'm running plus two in the back on my Gen 4....it's perfect on the track and street...I like it.
 

·
Of course you are faster
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
All points have been touched on but I'll see if I can wrap it up with a nice bow.

1. you can never get something for free, you always trade one thing for another.

if you want better acceleration, you will have to sacrafice some top end, just the way it is.

so, if you drop a tooth on the front, or you add teeth to the back, you will lose top end speed but will gain acceleration (and will lift the front quicker, easier, more frequently). No way around that. The engine is still putting out the same amount of horse power, same torque, you are just trading one for the other.

the bike will not bog on launches, infact it will bite and be more agressive with the - front / + rear senario. The engine will hold have stronger and higher RPM.. you are telling the engine to do "less work" because the mechanical advantage of the gear ratio is letting the engine spin more/work less, for each rotation of the rear wheel.

you may need different gears for the same turn, you will see your RPM higher comming in so you may... may want to go up a gear on some of the turns... Ride it and find out.. on the street, so many different turns, radious, angles... most likely won't notice it in the turn, you will notice it when you come out. It will actually be opposite of what you asked, a normal 2nd gear turn... may now become a 3rd gear turn... if you go into the turn in 2nd and find your RPM is too high... you may need to enter in 3rd... it's all about how you drive and how you feel your entry and exit RPM need to be.

Yes, more peppy, 3rd gear turns would likely be 4th gear turns with the new ratio.


This is very important on the track, same turns, same straights, same same same, tune the bike to the track for a given rider. A good pit crew sets up the bike for the track, lets the rider hot lap a few and adjusts to what he thinks he needs, his style. Some guys are huge angle in corners people, others are rip it down the straights and hope you have enough lead to hold on coming out of the corners with less acceleration.

that is why track designers put both long straights and many tight turns... so that not just one set up or style will work... The "Box" at Hockenhime was great for tall gearing, the corkscrew at Lugna Sega needs shorter gears and hope your engine holds together in 6th at 14,ooo RPM down the straight.

the short answer is that nearly everyone who rides on the street never uses that top 25% of speed... but every single pilot starts out in first gear and gives it some "wackin'" so, nearly every single pilot will trade 189 mph for 178 mph and more yank out of the hole when on the street.

the track... is tune to you and the course you are on.
 

·
Of course you are faster
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
P.S. if you aren't running a 1/5th throttle... Give that a look see...

that's where the real "something for nothing" senario comes into play. Most people can't get to that top 10% of the throttle range... it's there, it works, but no one uses it..

the 1/5th gives you easy smooth access to it... wakes the bike up, not a performance mod, but gives you access to everying you purchased and paid for.

haven't met anyone yet who wasn't impressed... even had one chap in the UK that asked for a 1/4.9 or 1/4.7... hooked him right up.
 

·
Я - Ребен&#108
Joined
·
3,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
P.S. if you aren't running a 1/5th throttle... Give that a look see...

that's where the real "something for nothing" senario comes into play. Most people can't get to that top 10% of the throttle range... it's there, it works, but no one uses it..

the 1/5th gives you easy smooth access to it... wakes the bike up, not a performance mod, but gives you access to everying you purchased and paid for.

haven't met anyone yet who wasn't impressed... even had one chap in the UK that asked for a 1/4.9 or 1/4.7... hooked him right up.

Yeap I got 3 of them from you over the years for every Gen ZX10R....
I have yours on my race bike now, and a motion pro on the street bike (got it free for some labor).



Ok thanks every one...this helps...
Again I always re-gear my race bikes and its easy because Ive been racing the same tracks for years.

For the streets I have always ran stock gearing and wanted to change it up some.

Last question....
If i was only going to do a -1F.......or.......+2 rear.....

would the -1 front lose more top speed since its about +2.3 or so equivalent ?
 

·
Squid wannabe
Joined
·
6,073 Posts
Yeap I got 3 of them from you over the years for every Gen ZX10R....
I have yours on my race bike now, and a motion pro on the street bike (got it free for some labor).



Ok thanks every one...this helps...
Again I always re-gear my race bikes and its easy because Ive been racing the same tracks for years.

For the streets I have always ran stock gearing and wanted to change it up some.

Last question....
If i was only going to do a -1F.......or.......+2 rear.....

would the -1 front lose more top speed since its about +2.3 or so equivalent ?
Yes you are correct.
A -1 would be a bigger change than a +2. So you would loose more top speed, but would gain more acceleration with the -1.

And gaining and losing top end, it is actually just the top speed, you are not actually changing anything to do with the engine.
 

·
Я - Ребен&#108
Joined
·
3,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Ok thanks again.....
Last question I swear....it just hit me that the bikes are speed limited to 186mph....do anyone know the unlimited top speed on the bikes with stock gearing? I seem to remember way back that someone said a stock 2004 ten could hit 192mph without the limiter...

So i was just thinking...if this bike had a limiter at 186mph and with the ecu flash that takes off the limiter, along with the extra 750rpm bump I did with Ghul....this bike should technically get into real world 190s right?
and re-geared should drop down to a true 185mph or so....what do you think?


Anyway, I plan on experimenting with my extra race sprockets on the street bike, and over the winter buy a new set up with 520 pitch and what ever sprocket size I feel is good..

I went thru my extra sprockets and had this....
all 525 pitch
16F = -1
40R = +1
42R = +3

OEM Gen 4 = 17f/39R
So out of the selection above I went with the
16F/39R

I cant wait to test it out.....
Also set up new camera angle lol








 

·
Squid wannabe
Joined
·
6,073 Posts
You can input all the stuff like gearing and rev limiter at gearingcommander.com and get theoretical top speed for the bike.


One thing that makes a little difference but should be taken in amount is tire circumference, which changes from brand to brand, even with the same size.


Another thing is that all those speeds are theoretical, you can put a 19/37 sprocket setup that will calculate to 230mph but the bike wont be able to get up there due to air resistance.
 

·
Я - Ребен&#108
Joined
·
3,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
took it on a test run today....talk about mighty torque upgrade.....

Pros:
all gears feel good and pull like a freight train...
Selecting a gear for back roads feel right...
can stay in one gear and spool up so damn fast...

Cons:
lost about 8 miles or more on the fill up. refuled at 127 miles (fuel light came on about 115 miles) put 3.9 gallons in at the 127 mile mark.
Vibrations is crazy now...hand is tingling like my gen 1 use to.
Louder since crusing in 6th doing 87 mph is about 6,700 RPMs....I think is use to be about 4,000 RPMs

Over all I like where this is going...
Just wish I had a +2 available to test....

I think Ill go and put stock front on and a +1 rear: +0F/+1R
if it feels too weak Ill just buy a +2 this winter with a 520 pitch.....

Over all....I like tho...bike feels totally different...feels real racy and reminds me more like my race bike....
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top