Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So it may sound menial, but the lock internals in my gas cap get consistently stiff/sticky. It makes it difficult to unlock the cap, and it's putting too much torsional stress on the key. I have been shooting it full of WD40 which lubes it up well, but I have to do it quite often.

Any other ideas to tackle this problem?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
i had the same problem, and i wasnt as pro-active about keeping it clean or lubed.... then this happend when i was at the gas station trying to open it to fill up.... had to wait for a friend to bring me a spare key and take it to the dealer to help me extract the broken off key tip... after that he used some white lithium based (i think) grease and a small thin brush for cleaning locks and cleaned it out real good then lubed it up again after... since then ive been shooting a little WD40 type stuff in there once a week and so far it has stayed pretty smooth

 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,616 Posts
I believe even WD40 will gum up after a while. Try some dry graphite type lube.

This. THIS. THIS!!!



Do NOT use WD-40!!! That shit is not a lubricant! It is a water displacer (hence the "WD") and cleaner. It's essentially kerosene to be used to clean and prevent contamination. It is great at cleaning stuff, but is a shitty lubricant. I don't know why people don't get this? :dontknow:



The cap is under tension from the rubber seal under the cap. Push down on the cap slightly as you turn the key and you'll never have to worry about breaking a key off in the lock. The key isn't a wrench. Push down as you turn and don't use WD-40. A small amount of graphite lube in the keyhole and you're done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
>> Questions/Comments <<

ROADWARRIOR <> Sorry to hear about that mishap, and thank you for your reply. That it is exactly why I'm interested in finding a viable solution. Using a tiny brush sounds like a good idea to employ; irrespective of that not completely addressing the fluidity issue. Cleaning the lock's internals has to be a good thing, and would surely help. White lithium grease I had considered, but ruled it out as it's viscosity seemed to negate its ability to penetrate into the internals. Maybe using the brush coated in the grease would allow some penetration into the tab mechanism which seems to be the issue.

EVIL & SKYD <> Thanks guys, but my first attempt, months ago, was employing a graphite lube. Unfortunately, it never did a thing, and I've reapplied a few times, since... to no avail. It might had helped with the key pins, but not the actual tabs of the cap that extend out to lock & thus, retract to release the cap. When I open the cap & look at the locking assembly it appears relatively "whitish", and looks like it would not operate fluidly... which it does not.

SKYD <> I'm relatively familiar with the WD-40 story, and have been aware for quite some time that - as the story goes - it's the 40th version of a water displacement product. It is also an ubiquitous product that irrespective of it's intended purpose, does prove quite effective in a broad range of applications. Although it was a temporary fix, I agree with you that it's not the solution to my dilemma, and thus, I post here; looking for the advice of those wiser than me.

As for the gas cap gasket tension advice, I am also aware of this design, and always - every time - depress the cap before actuating the lock. This protocol alone has not been enough to mitigate said issue, and as previously mentioned above, graphite lube has not been effective. The entire locking mechanism itself - not necessarily the pins actuated by the key - are seemingly in dire need of lubrication.

Now with that said, WD-40 has unequivocally proven to free up the mechanism in dramatic fashion. Thus, I'm perfectly comfortable concluding upon your undeniable premise that said product is cleaning the mechanism enough to allow easier actuation & quasi-lubricating it just by the residual effect of the "kerosene" before it evaporates, but still the question remains... what lubricant - other than graphite - might you suggest for the large mechanism under the cap? I'm afraid the graphite just isn't cutting it, and I gotta think it's a lubricant issue.:dontknow:
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,616 Posts

SKYD <> I'm relatively familiar with the WD-40 story, and have been aware for quite some time that - as the story goes - it's the 40th version of a water displacement product. It is also an ubiquitous product that irrespective of it's intended purpose, does prove quite effective in a broad range of applications. Although it was a temporary fix, I agree with you that it's not the solution to my dilemma, and thus, I post here; looking for the advice of those wiser than me.

As for the gas cap gasket tension advice, I am also aware of this design, and always - every time - depress the cap before actuating the lock. This protocol alone has not been enough to mitigate said issue, and as previously mentioned above, graphite lube has not been effective. The entire locking mechanism itself - not necessarily the pins actuated by the key - are seemingly in dire need of lubrication.
Now with that said, WD-40 has unequivocally proven to free up the mechanism in dramatic fashion. Thus, I'm perfectly comfortable concluding upon your undeniable premise that said product is cleaning the mechanism enough to allow easier actuation & quasi-lubricating it just by the residual effect of the "kerosene" before it evaporates, but still the question remains... what lubricant - other than graphite - might you suggest for the large mechanism under the cap? I'm afraid the graphite just isn't cutting it, and I gotta think it's a lubricant issue.:dontknow:
So, since you're pretty familiar with the information already, let's move onto what I see as the flaw with this part. It hasn't been cleaned well enough! That's my theory.

If it were my gas cap that was causing the issue you describe, then I would do the following (short of completely disassembling the components). Pull the cap off the tank. Spray the lock mechanism and the locking tab pretty generously with a penetrating oil or even WD-40. Let is sit for awhile. Then clean it. Use a low pressure air to force the suspended oil and debris out of the cap area. That will help to dry it out. The key after that is to get rid of the oil/WD-40. Use a good degreasing solvent to get rid of the crap you used to clean the mechanism. Use a low pressure compressed air source to blow that out and clean it up again. Denatured alcohol will help prep everything after that as the final prep step. Let it dry out real good. Overnight would be a good plan for that. Then put the cap back on the tank.

Once it's cleaned and dried out real well, then use the graphite powder to keep it lubricated.

Of course, all of that assumes that the problem is with the lock mechanism and not the key itself. Is the key bent or worn at all? Have you verified another key does the same thing?

Give that stuff a try and see what results you get from that. :eek:ccasion1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I use the penetrant Kleen flo honey goo XX for my gas cap lock once in a while. but I make sure it stays free of moisture / water to begin with.

In your trouble shooting OP it is not in the pressing down of the lid while working the lock. That to me suggests that you have already gone through trouble shooting and working the lock while the lid is open and it is still sticking the same way when there is no pressure on the lock tab / mechanism when the lid is open. Also in my experience a wore part works good with excessive lubrication when it fails to do the same with regular to dry ish lubrication. The cause of the problem in that scenario is not the lack of lubrication but it is the presence of wore out parts that can last further with excessive lubrication up to a point (not saying that this is in fact the case with your lock). Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
SKYD <> I've come to expect nothing less than incredibly helpful & simply logical insight from you. Thank you. :notworthy:

Question: "Low pressure air" is what more specifically? I can gain access to compressed air like in a garage, but I would think that to be "high-pressure"?

I just picked up a used fuel tank that's way nicer than what I have on it so when I change tanks I will follow your suggested protocol to a "T". As for the key, it definitely has a bit of twist to it towards the base, but the stiffness of the lock actuation is almost surely from the lock internals/tab assembly. They key inserts flush, and isn't in enough disrepair to cause my concern in that regard. Furthermore, my graphite key-lock lubricant isn't a dry powder, but rather a powder infused liquid penetrant... if that matters.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
ZX10 <> :hello: Looks like we were typing in concert, and I missed your input before I posted my last reply. Thank you, and I here you, in that, it could just be that it's 14 years-old. That said, I'll move forward with SKYD's protocol, and see what a good cleaning does because it's not really a high wear item.
 

·
REPOST Enforcement Mod
Joined
·
13,616 Posts
Question: "Low pressure air" is what more specifically? I can gain access to compressed air like in a garage, but I would think that to be "high-pressure"?


The air compressor is fine. I meant low pressure in the amount of air you're supplying with it. Set your regulator to something less than 40psi to try and dislodge any debris in there and dry it out. You don't need anything more than that on your nozzle. Just because your compressor can create high pressure air, it doesn't have to supply it at the end. That's all I meant.

I see ZX10's post above and he also makes some good points. When I read your previous post, I read that statement about depressing the cap when "actuating" the lock as being to the unlock position. He read that differently. So, yeah, I think we both meant "press down to unlock". There's no need to move the key to lock it. You just push the cap back into place for that. As he said also, you should try to lock and unlock the cap with it in the open position to feel the action and move everything. Try that a few times while cleaning it.

I'm not familiar enough with the graphite fluid. If the fluid evaporates well and doesn't leave a film that collects crap on it, it should be fine. I've always had the best luck with the dry powder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
A suggestion to work with old and wore stuff, if I may, the trick is to remove the spring load.

This is the process I follow:

When opening: Insert key --> Push lid and hold down --> turn key and keep it turned till lid is released.
When closing: Turn key to unlock and hold --> Push the lid all the way down and hold down --> turn key to lock while holding the lid down.

If the key is resisting turning because the two tab things that hold the lid down have resistance with the gas tank neck then no amount of lubrication will get rid of that resistance for the next time because they are doused and splashed with gas once the lid is closed and the bike shakes and moves. Doing it this way also prolongs the life of the mechanism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
SKYD <> Yes, I never try to actuate the lock (turn the key) w/o depressing the cap. As for locking the cap, no way in hell - as it is - will it lock on its own... in the open nor closed orientation. It requires me to depress the cap, and turn the key to the unlocked position to open the cap. It also requires me to depress the cap, and turn the key to the locked position to close the cap.

As for the graphite powder, I'll attempt to source it locally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ZX-10 <> Again, we're typing in concert. Yes, the protocol you describe is, in fact, the one I employ... every time. As for the resistance being due to the tabs fighting the neck, that is the only disjunct here. It seems as if the resistance is in the internals of the tab mechanism as said tabs remain retracted unless I rotate the key... even when the cap is open whilst filling with fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
This. THIS. THIS!!!



Do NOT use WD-40!!! That shit is not a lubricant! It is a water displacer (hence the "WD") and cleaner. It's essentially kerosene to be used to clean and prevent contamination. It is great at cleaning stuff, but is a shitty lubricant. I don't know why people don't get this? :dontknow:



The cap is under tension from the rubber seal under the cap. Push down on the cap slightly as you turn the key and you'll never have to worry about breaking a key off in the lock. The key isn't a wrench. Push down as you turn and don't use WD-40. A small amount of graphite lube in the keyhole and you're done.

yes its not a lubricant but it does help break up the gunky buildup when someone hasnt cleaned it and its stuck... i got my bike 2nd hand and it was already really badly gunked up from the original owner probably NEVER cleaning it or lubing it.... i always did push the cap down to relieve pressure before turning, in fact it was so badly gunked up you could not turn it at all without pushing it down in just the right spot when i got it... my own mistake for being lazy and not properly cleaning it out earlier, one of those things im like "ok ill do it tomorrow" and then a month later still hadnt done it and the key broke off lol... i deserved that ;)
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top