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I earlier posted on this thread:
http://zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34386

So his ZX-10R is at about 125 miles. It is between 15 and 25 F outside (definitely below freezing). I rode with him to Chipotle (yes, I know it's stupid to ride in below freezing weather. I probably shouldn't have gone along for the ride, but he said he was going out riding and I decided I wanted to see how he was doing, so I took my ratbike EX500 out.) My gloves & gear kept me sufficiently warm that the wind & cold didn't bother me at speeds of 45 MPH or below. The roads were generally free of ice, snow, and salt.

I had to flip it to reserve halfway through the ride, and decided to pull over to do so. My friend was riding behind me and claims I nearly "ran him off the road". I felt pretty bad about that, I did check my mirror and thought I had enough distance. I decelerated no slower than you would on an EX500 in below-freezing weather. I'm not sure if I were in the wrong or he were at that point. Probably both of us did.

We parked at Chipotle, ate our food, talked about bikes and other things for a while, and then headed out. He started up his ZX-10R, I started my 500, pulled out, adjusted the choke a little, and then he rode from his parking spot to mine. After he turned around, I watched his bike suddenly fall to one side and heard the motor race--I'm not sure which happened first. I immediately parked my bike, dismounted, and went to make sure he wasn't injured. By the time I got there he stood up on his own authority and assured me he wasn't injured. Basically the bike fell over and slide about 3 to 5 yards/metres with him sliding with it, but the bike didn't hurt his leg at all on the side it fell on.

He picked up the bike on his own and wheeled it over and parked it, picked up some pieces from the cracked fairing (lower left fairing was cracked in two; centre left fairing had some fractures; generator cover was scratched; both left footpegs, left mirror, and left muffler cover have superficial scratches. We haven't found any other damage.)

He was a bit shaken but thankfully couldn't find any injuries, other than a tiny bit of soreness in his shoulder. We rode over to Starbucks (which is about 1/10th of a mile away), got coffee, sat down, and talked about what just happened. Then he went out and warmed his bike up and I rode my bike to the nearest gas station to fill up, since I'd flipped to reserve a few miles earlier.

After his bike warmed up he found an ice problem forming on his rear tyre. Please see my related thread in the ZX-10R thread about that.

So my basic situation now is: he blames the fact he went down on Kawasaki for making a bike that forms ice on the rear tyre when it's warming up in frigid temperatures, even though it DOES NOT form on the contact patch, but only on the sides; and he refuses to admit he needs any kind of further rider education.

I talked to him tonight about when myself and a few other friends are going to be taking (or retaking) the MSF basic rider course in the next few months. He thinks it's not worth planning for because he'll be too busy then, and I talked to him about my concerns, and our conversation basically went downhill.

He told me that he feels I'm saying he's a sucky rider. I said I'm not saying that, I just think everyone benefits from the safety class. He said he's been riding dirtbikes since he was 4 so he already knows how to ride safely on the street, that his dad & brother never took such a class and both can ride their Harleys okay (I do believe his brother has had multiple wrecks on other bikes, but I chose not to bring that up), and that I'm basically saying he should just sell his bike and never ride again.

I would like to hear what other riders have done in this situation. At this point, I think I should avoid riding with him anymore, and frankly I am worried I am going to either watch a beautiful new ZX-10R get totalled or attend his funeral.
 

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I remember something my grandfather use to say "a hard head makes a soft ass" You have to remember that you can only let him know your concerns. Some people think they know it all and no one can teach them anything.

If you do continue to ride with your buddy, ride behind him with enough distance to manuever out of a hazardous situation. That is my advise to you.
 

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ErnieBall said:
IHe told me that he feels I'm saying he's a sucky rider. I said I'm not saying that, I just think everyone benefits from the safety class. He said he's been riding dirtbikes since he was 4 so he already knows how to ride safely on the street, that his dad & brother never took such a class and both can ride their Harleys okay (I do believe his brother has had multiple wrecks on other bikes, but I chose not to bring that up), and that I'm basically saying he should just sell his bike and never ride again.
All of the things he accused you of saying are going through his head. His pride is damaged and he needs to learn from his mistakes. If you ride with him again and think he's not safe, tell him so and refrain from riding with him any further.

He'll learn eventually... I hope.
 

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modidy said:
I remember something my grandfather use to say "a hard head makes a soft ass" You have to remember that you can only let him know your concerns. Some people think they know it all and no one can teach them anything.

If you do continue to ride with your buddy, ride behind him with enough distance to manuever out of a hazardous situation. That is my advise to you.
05Zixxer said:
All of the things he accused you of saying are going through his head. His pride is damaged and he needs to learn from his mistakes. If you ride with him again and think he's not safe, tell him so and refrain from riding with him any further.

He'll learn eventually... I hope.
:+1:
 

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Dude, tell him I think he is a shitty rider who needs more training and riding time. I never met him, but if I did, I would definitely NOT ride with him. Rider safety first. If he can't comply, tell him to find another riding partner or just get his sorry butt into a class to learn some rules and skills. Personally, I am always open to refresher courses any training available. I've been riding bikes for 24+ years maybe more, but never turn down good advice. It could save your life one day. I can't honestly think how other riders ride with partners who are dangerous without pointing out the obvious to them. I have yet to meet a rider who is eager to get himself killed in the next turn. I'd like to think that I am very wrong in this instance. Ride careful.
 

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When I read threads about wrecks and the riders blaming the tires it always says the same thing.

I would venture to say, 99% of wrecks where the rider blames the tires it is actually the riders fault not the tires fault.

His pride is hurt right now, that is to be expected. Give him a day or so to recover then reapproach him with the MSF idea and or offer to help him out just the two of you.

Anytime you deciede to ride when the weather conditions are not optimal it means you as a rider need to be twice as careful, twice as steady on how you input the throttle, and twice as sure on what you want to do before you do it.
 

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Sounds like he Rich Christensened it.
 

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Caedite Eos Novit Enim Do
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It sounds like your buddy is a stupid son-of-a-bitch.you post things on here about his piss poor riding skills,you cant give him riding advise fearing you will piss him off,then the stupid fucker accuses you of nearly taking him out,then he drops his bike and accuses kawasaki of making a bike that freezes the rear tire. he is a fucking moron that doesnt need to be on a bike & you need to find new riding partners or ride by yourself
 

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BrockLanders said:
Sounds like he Rich Christensened it.
That is Awesome.... New coined phrase...


ON topic, I think if you ride in weather below freezing you are risking a lot. You not only your tires are bad, but ice can form anywhere on the road, and you probaby won't see it.

I would say he needs to go to motorcycle safety class... I knew how to ride before I took my class, but I'm glad I took it all the same... BTW, out of 12-15 riders in my class me and two other guy were the only ones who rode SuperSports... We were the top in our class... Me being number one of course... or two... I just thought that was funny, when we were riding with people who had been on Harley's for twenty years... And they still couldn't do a figure 8...

Peace.
Chad
 

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Sounds like your friend needs a good ass whoopin to open his eyes. Its a shame that people are still that naive. If he doesn't want to listen or go to a coarse then just don't ride with him and if he asks why you won't ride with him let him know that he scares the shit outta you with his riding.
 

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cott10r said:
It sounds like your buddy is a stupid son-of-a-bitch.you post things on here about his piss poor riding skills,you cant give him riding advise fearing you will piss him off,then the stupid fucker accuses you of nearly taking him out,then he drops his bike and accuses kawasaki of making a bike that freezes the rear tire. he is a fucking moron that doesnt need to be on a bike & you need to find new riding partners or ride by yourself
Why dont ya tell him how you really feel about the situationm rather than beating around the bush like this :mrgreen:
 

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modidy said:
I remember something my grandfather use to say "a hard head makes a soft ass" You have to remember that you can only let him know your concerns. Some people think they know it all and no one can teach them anything.

If you do continue to ride with your buddy, ride behind him with enough distance to manuever out of a hazardous situation. That is my advise to you.

well put. some just don't get it.
 

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ErnieBall said:
He told me that he feels I'm saying he's a sucky rider. I said I'm not saying that, I just think everyone benefits from the safety class. He said he's been riding dirtbikes since he was 4 so he already knows how to ride safely on the street, that his dad & brother never took such a class and both can ride their Harleys okay (I do believe his brother has had multiple wrecks on other bikes, but I chose not to bring that up), and that I'm basically saying he should just sell his bike and never ride again.
.

this guy has been riding since he was 5 but you can see it for your self
Rich Christensen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMSqJva20-o
 

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modidy said:
I remember something my grandfather use to say "a hard head makes a soft ass" You have to remember that you can only let him know your concerns. Some people think they know it all and no one can teach them anything.

If you do continue to ride with your buddy, ride behind him with enough distance to manuever out of a hazardous situation. That is my advise to you.
:iamwithst Could'nt be said any better! lets just hope he has enough ass left to be soft when its all over!Definetly ride behind him!:headshake
 

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your buddy have ride since he was 5 but I think he have just riden that same one year many times over( he have learnt nothing). If you ride a bike , you know that this sport is one of continuos learning. No one can claim to have all the skills, and even if you are greatly skilled, new motorcycles keep coming each year that have higher operational limits that most people cant achieve. Do yourself a favor and get new riding partners if your friend dont have a learning /getting better on the skills atittude.To ride a dirt bike and to ride a zx-10 is a very different thing ,even if both are bikes. Its like comparing apples to oranges.Ride safe and just be sincere with yourself and with him.
 
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