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Don't do it!!...., Don't jump off that bridge.....YET!!

My guess is that the Kleen system pulls less vacuum than a PVC system in a V8 engine. A PVC system is for polution control and there is not enough vacuum to aide in the ring seal. I don't think it is enough to create an actual vacuum in the crankcase it just lets off the back pressure. On the other hand the external vacuum pumps can create a lot (10-20 in) of vacuum in the crankcase and free up a few ponnies with better ring seal. But there is a downside as I recall when a vacuum is attached to a V8 valve cover (this area is opened to the crankcase also) the vacuum created will also suck oil up at the valves and cause premature wear. I was, and still might, put an external pump on my race car but would have to unhook it for street use to save wear on the valves.

My opinion,
Mike
 

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I have done this mod . I am the person that wrote to streetfighter50 . With my mod there is a suprising amount of resistance while removing the oil cap with the engine running . You can also place your hand around or on the clutch cover and feel the vacuum yourself . Even at idle there is a LOT of vacuum . Just imagine at 13,000RPM .

The PCV valve in a car engine has nothing to do with polution control . It removes the oil blow-by from the crankcase . And it is a PCV valve not a PVC valve . Positive crankcase ventilation and not polyvinyl chloride . http://www.2carpros.com/topics/pcvvalve.htm
 

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tberd said:
I have done this mod . I am the person that wrote to streetfighter50 . With my mod there is a suprising amount of resistance while removing the oil cap with the engine running . You can also place your hand around or on the clutch cover and feel the vacuum yourself . Even at idle there is a LOT of vacuum . Just imagine at 13,000RPM .

The PCV valve in a car engine has nothing to do with polution control . It removes the oil blow-by from the crankcase . And it is a PCV valve not a PVC valve . Positive crankcase ventilation and not polyvinyl chloride . http://www.2carpros.com/topics/pcvvalve.htm
tberd,
I stand corrected, It is PCV (I mis-wrote) and uses manifold vacuum to evacuate the crankcase. I do think it is considered a polution control devise.
The main point I was making is: How much vacuum is actually made? Is it enough to aide in ring seal? and...if it is enough to aide in ring seal is it safe to do this mod, will it suck oil from where it might be needed?
I'd like to see some HP before/after numbers. I'd like to see some vacuum gauge numbers. I'd like to see some testing to see that the oiling system is not being harmed.
It is a great idea for some free horsepower, I'm just throwing out some food for thought.

Thanks for the idea,
Mike
 

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No problem bikemike . I hear you about some good info from this mod . But the car drag racers and pro engine builders already know about this . You noticed the link I provided was from HotRod right ? This mod is hardly ever mentioned in the motorcycle community .

If you are wondering about the amount of vacuum from this mod , try it out yourself . I have done it to my ZX10R and other bikes . Just costs a dollar or two for the hose . After you have the new hose on , open the oil cap on the clutch cover . Place your hand around that large hole where the oil cap was . Now with the bike running you will feel a LOT of vacuum even at idle . I was amazed from the level of it . I thought there would be none or not much especially at idle . You will see there is some resistance when trying to remove the oil cap , from the vacuum that is . Also the oil stays a lot cleaner from the improved piston ring sealing .

Even if it gives you 1 whole HP , how much did it cost you ? Maybe a buck or two for the hose . I would "guess" a gain of 1-3HP . The more open your exhaust is or free flowing , the more possible vacuum is available . This mod on a stock can might not work as well as done on a slip-on or a full pipe . I have the Devil Racing Shotgun slip-on . I have a lot of vacuum at idle .

to check the vacuum level , all you need is a T placed into the 1/2" hose . Hook your vacuum meter there at the T . Then put a rubber cap on the T . I would love to see the vacuum levels from this , idle to 13,000RPM .
 

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I hope I don't get jumped on too bad here. I have read everything here about the mod here and on 12r.org.
So what I wanted to say was I have done this mod on my 12r as well as many of my friends on 12r's and busas with no problems, no oil leaks from gaskets, no oil consumption or any type of related matter. I still have my 12, however I am considering doing this to my 10r as well. just my 2 cents
Here is a search I did for all of you to decide for your self.
http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/search.php?mode=results
Hope this helps. After going back and reading these I know I will be doing this ot my 10.
 

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tberd said:
Also if you are worried about this mod sucking any oil up you will see it come out your exhaust . The oil vapor will go from the crank case , into the valve cover , into the exhaust system and out . From doing this mod personally I have ZERO oil exiting from my exhaust . Oil level stays constant and never uses any .

And for the valve wear , the valves are above of the crank case . The engine valves get lubed from the oil that came from the cam bearings . There is no engine or valve wear issue from this mod at all .
tberd,
Where is the crankcase vent line that you hook up to, can you post a pic or describe it?
I would like to see somebody take a vacuum reading right at the reed valve cover hose where it enters the air box. I'm not ready to reinstall the covers to do it ...yet.
The effects of the valve stems being sucked dry are subtle. If the oil from the top end has a place or passage to drain back down to the crankcase then that area is probably exposed to the crankcase vacuum you have added. It's not about sucking oil out of the crankcase through the exhaust, if a valve or other part uses a whicking action to get lubed and a vacuum is applied and pulls the oil in the opposite direction it could oil starve the valve or other part including cylinder walls and wristpins.

Mike
 

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BIKEMIKE said:
tberd,
Where is the crankcase vent line that you hook up to, can you post a pic or describe it?
I would like to see somebody take a vacuum reading right at the reed valve cover hose where it enters the air box. I'm not ready to reinstall the covers to do it ...yet.
The effects of the valve stems being sucked dry are subtle. If the oil from the top end has a place or passage to drain back down to the crankcase then that area is probably exposed to the crankcase vacuum you have added. It's not about sucking oil out of the crankcase through the exhaust, if a valve or other part uses a whicking action to get lubed and a vacuum is applied and pulls the oil in the opposite direction it could oil starve the valve or other part including cylinder walls and wristpins.

Mike
The crank case vent hose is 1/2" inside diameter . It attaches to the airbox around your penis area . You will notice the only large hose on the air box that faces the to the rear of the bike . It is in the center of the air box . That hose runs from the air box down to the crank case . Now remove this stock hose . Run a .75 meter 1/2" ID long hose to the crank case port and the red circled picture area on the air valve switch , AIS KLEEN or whatever it is called . Plug the 2 ports on the air box , done deal .
 

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Great find on this mod morrisjl2 . That will help a lot of guys that are worried about this basically free mod . I like 2-3HP for maybe a buck .
 

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After reading the Kawi service manual I think I/we need to remove the electrical plug that goes to the AIS KLEEN air valve . The best bet would be a simple plastic T inserted between the PAIR valves . That would connect the PAIRS together and the other end would go to the crank case . All 1/2" inside diameter hose or fittings .

Again great find by morrisjl2 . His links have really kick ass pics and a great write up on this mod . I think I am going to the hardware store now and get a T for this mod . Junk that air valve all together . Much simpler install and will clean that area up a lot .
 

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tberd said:
The crank case vent hose is 1/2" inside diameter . It attaches to the airbox around your penis area . You will notice the only large hose on the air box that faces the to the rear of the bike . It is in the center of the air box . That hose runs from the air box down to the crank case . Now remove this stock hose . Run a .75 meter 1/2" ID long hose to the crank case port and the red circled picture area on the air valve switch , AIS KLEEN or whatever it is called . Plug the 2 ports on the air box , done deal .
So you simply want to disconnect the two large hoses (front and back) attached to the airbox and connect them together.
Then plug the two hokes in the airbox. Huh, simple.
 

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Are you sure the power is coming from vacuum? Another mod good for 1 to 3 hp is to just disconnect the crankcase breather hose form the airbox. Hot oily air comes up from the crankcase, and that goes into the cylinders with fresh air robbing power. Sounds like this mod benefits from that also by bypassing that hot oily air from the intake. I plan to plug the crankcase hole in the airbox, and put a filter on the crankcase breather port.
 

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Also, I doubt a dyno operator with a sniffer will appreciate this mod. Going by the theory of it all, this will now inject hot oily mist into your exhaust. That can't be good for a oxygen sensor. It will also transfer more heat to your valves. One of the problems of running a lean fuel map is excessive heat burning up your valves prematurely. This mod will transfer more heat to the valves. I doubt the suction valve is designed for the higher temps that will now flow through it also.
 

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Don't forget fresh air is not cooling the crankcase fumes. That means very hot crank fumes mixing with very very hot exhuast gases from the cylinders. That just don't sound right.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
We need more input on this one! Has anyone actually tested this "FREE HP" mod on our ZX10R's? Ivan or Dan Kyle, please help:eyecrazy: :dontknow:
 

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STREETFIGHTER50 said:
We need more input on this one! Has anyone actually tested this "FREE HP" mod on our ZX10R's? Ivan or Dan Kyle, please help:eyecrazy: :dontknow:
I've been told by a tuner/dragracer about disconnecting the crankcase breather mod. I don't know about vacuum mod, but it don't sound healthy. The tuner never mentioned any thing like that. I've heard of this mod on gixxers, but that doesn't mean it won't cause premature wear. Too much heat is a bad thing.
 

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Can somebody tell me how/why a vacuum in the crank case aids in ring seal? I understand that it *could* result in lower pumping losses, but I don't follow the ring seal theory. Pleaase help.
 

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This mod was done by myself on the 636 and the only thing I did notice was better throttle response, nothing more and nothing less. I felt no more power.
 
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