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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering what you all thought of the story below that was in Sundays Los Angeles Times.

Do you think illegal immigrants should be given all health care free and should they be getting transplants when our own citizens are on waiting lists?

Doesn,t charity begin at home, or is someone home once they cross the border?

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-liver13apr13,1,6190565.story
 

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If I cant have free healthcare, then neither should they. As a matter of fact, they should be shipped back to wherever they came from and let their country deal with their health problems. That goes for ALL illegals. NO anchor babies, free school, free medical, free anything. Our hard earned money is going to provide all these things to these people and it needs to stop. Eject them back, and keep them out- and then we wont have to worry about providing livers to illegal aliens.
 

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If I cant have free healthcare, then neither should they. As a matter of fact, they should be shipped back to wherever they came from and let their country deal with their health problems. That goes for ALL illegals. NO anchor babies, free school, free medical, free anything. Our hard earned money is going to provide all these things to these people and it needs to stop. Eject them back, and keep them out- and then we wont have to worry about providing livers to illegal aliens.
:+1: X 1,000:headshake
 

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I have to pay so they should too...if not ship'em the heck out with whatever problem they have
 

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Simple solutions to complex problems. Pay no attention to the consequences of your solution. Listen to Rush. Think what he tells you. Hate John McCain because he disagrees with you. He's from a state with many problems caused by undocumented aliens and knows that this won't be solved with tough rhetoric. We've tried that for the past 8 years and look where it got us.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Simple solutions to complex problems. Pay no attention to the consequences of your solution. Listen to Rush. Think what he tells you. Hate John McCain because he disagrees with you. He's from a state with many problems caused by undocumented aliens and knows that this won't be solved with tough rhetoric. We've tried that for the past 8 years and look where it got us.
You did not give one answer, instead typical sound byte pyscho babble...refering to Limbaugh...whats that supposed to mean..

( At least you are in a win win situation all three presidential candidates agree with you) :thumbsup:

whats so complex about the problem...they are here illegally...ever hear the term in our legal/court system..."fruit of the poison tree" according to our law they cannot have it.....a criminal cannot benefit from any gains received through illegal activity.........

apparently by your way of thinking if someone breaks into your house they are not only entitled to everything in it but you are also obligated to supply them with food, education, transportation, housing and anything else they want because they are "entitled to it"

to you thats complex..to me they do not belong there...and are not entitled to anything because they got there ILLEGALLY of course this is the one word everyone loves to gloss over. :wink:
 

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Mexico is the worlds 6th largest oil producer and has the second largest untapped oil field in the world.

Makes you wonder how long the border will remain.
 

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"He said it is likely that more illegal immigrants donate organs than receive them."

I'd like to see the supporting documentation on this.
 

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apparently by your way of thinking if someone breaks into your house they are not only entitled to everything in it but you are also obligated to supply them with food, education, transportation, housing and anything else they want because they are "entitled to it"

to you thats complex..to me they do not belong there...and are not entitled to anything because they got there ILLEGALLY of course this is the one word everyone loves to gloss over. :wink:
That about sums it up.
 

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If you read what I wrote, I spoke about where we are now. If you eat fruit, vegetables, meat or many grains, you would be profoundly affected by kicking them all out now. Talking about how unfair this or that part of the problem is, begs the question. What do we do now that it has happened. Big Bidness Bush has relaxed regulations on most large corporations.

Even good ole Fred Thompson had a workable solution that will never happen. Stop businesses from using undocumented aliens by creating a team of enforcers of the law. The fines generated would pay for the people in the department. Over a period of years, people would stop coming across the border because there is no work for them here. Undocumented people here would leave because they would have no work. Balance would return.

It won't happen for the same reason that we spend $ 130,000.00 per year to keep a sargent in Iraq and $ 460,000.00 to keep a Halliburton or Blackwater "advisor" there. Money buys power and power generates influence. (No bid contracts) Big business has prospered by using low wage undocumented people. Cheap goods increases sales volume. Consumers are happy becaue we can buy things cheaply. The IRS is happy because far more money is withheld from undocumented people than they claim in refunds because they are afraid of being caught, so even including services provided for undocumented people, we enjoy a net monetary gain.

The undocumented people spend a significant portion of their income in the US, but drain it out in subtle ways through crime prevention, incarceration, education, medical and other expenses.

Do you really want to do this? 8 years of a president who acts on instinct leaves me worried about going ahead without a careful plan, is all I'm saying.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If you read what I wrote, I spoke about where we are now. If you eat fruit, vegetables, meat or many grains, you would be profoundly affected by kicking them all out now. Talking about how unfair this or that part of the problem is, begs the question. What do we do now that it has happened. Big Bidness Bush has relaxed regulations on most large corporations.

Even good ole Fred Thompson had a workable solution that will never happen. Stop businesses from using undocumented aliens by creating a team of enforcers of the law. The fines generated would pay for the people in the department. Over a period of years, people would stop coming across the border because there is no work for them here. Undocumented people here would leave because they would have no work. Balance would return.

It won't happen for the same reason that we spend $ 130,000.00 per year to keep a sargent in Iraq and $ 460,000.00 to keep a Halliburton or Blackwater "advisor" there. Money buys power and power generates influence. (No bid contracts) Big business has prospered by using low wage undocumented people. Cheap goods increases sales volume. Consumers are happy becaue we can buy things cheaply. The IRS is happy because far more money is withheld from undocumented people than they claim in refunds because they are afraid of being caught, so even including services provided for undocumented people, we enjoy a net monetary gain.

The undocumented people spend a significant portion of their income in the US, but drain it out in subtle ways through crime prevention, incarceration, education, medical and other expenses.

Do you really want to do this? 8 years of a president who acts on instinct leaves me worried about going ahead without a careful plan, is all I'm saying.

Well I see that the subject of illegal is skirted completely, but just because we already have 20 million illegals here does not mean that we should not stop the flow into the united states then deal with those that are here.

The illegals would not leave here nor will they ever leave until they stop receiving all the free benefits.....the illegals use up far more services than they ever pay in taxes...there is no way an illegal couple with 4 kids pays enough in taxes to even support the cost of the education for 4 much less subsidized housing, transportation, food, medical and the use of infrastructure ...this does not even take into consideration the 20 billion dollars in hard currency sent back to the homeland...

as for those who do work (and not all do by a large margin)..saying they are all farmworkers is a complete myth...check out the service industry jobs, construction jobs, and who they are held by...I can make the argument that the presence of illegals on the farms actually is costing us more...if they were not there things would become more and more mechanized and more efficient ways of raising crops would be instituted....

next time you are in a store look at tomatoes on the vine..they undoubtedly will be from wilcox arizona where there are acres of tomatoes in hothouses "under glass" as they say...they are raised hydroponically, takes two people to manage an acre and they get three crops a year. This is two more crops per acre than standard...

familiar with how pecans are harvested now? as opposed to a crew they take two guys one lays out the canvas another comes along with a tractor that shakes the tree and all the nuts come down...the story below is part of the far reaching effects of the illegals..

kids can't even get summer jobs....

you and I are on the same age about the government wanting them here... but you think its "big business" Me I think the democrats want them here to create social programs for and the Republicans want them here to sell products to ( which means more power to both, but in different ways)...why else would the government ( local, state and federal) allow sanctuarys, not let law enforcement check for residency, not let border patrol do their job etc etc etc...shyt old Bush the second seemed to have a love affair going with Vincente Fox....the only thing he and the clintons could see was getting NAFTA and GATT going...

all in all we are basically screwed...all the good jobs leaving the U.S population growing..where are all these college grads and even high school grads going to work....they get jobs that pay 35 to 50 grand a year...start figuring out how much that is after taxes :sad:

instead of arguing about one party vs the other, or one group against the other which the elitists want us to do..realize it is them, the electeds, elitists, the bureacrats against us, the citizens who are always being taken for a ride....

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/apr/15/jobs-this-summer-may-be-a-bit-scarce/
 

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If you read what I wrote, I spoke about where we are now. If you eat fruit, vegetables, meat or many grains, you would be profoundly affected by kicking them all out now. Talking about how unfair this or that part of the problem is, begs the question. What do we do now that it has happened. Big Bidness Bush has relaxed regulations on most large corporations..
Prove it. The best I could find searching the net... Is that they estimate that prices for fruits and vegitables would go up about 5% if they had to pay a wage of $10 per hour. Hardly profound, unless you can point me to a better source. And all of the presidents since the last anmesty have been part of the problem.

Even good ole Fred Thompson had a workable solution that will never happen. Stop businesses from using undocumented aliens by creating a team of enforcers of the law. The fines generated would pay for the people in the department. Over a period of years, people would stop coming across the border because there is no work for them here. Undocumented people here would leave because they would have no work. Balance would return..
Thompsons plan wasn't too bad. But bleeding hearts (Democrats & big business mostly) seem to call enforcing imigration laws and the laws that require workers to be legal citizens/residents to be racist or unconstitutional. Or it is too big of a burden for companies to check social security numbers... Look at the new law that went into effect in Arizona. http://www.legalarizonaworkers.com/ Needless to say, various groups are trying to get it over turned.

It won't happen for the same reason that we spend $ 130,000.00 per year to keep a sargent in Iraq and $ 460,000.00 to keep a Halliburton or Blackwater "advisor" there. Money buys power and power generates influence. (No bid contracts) Big business has prospered by using low wage undocumented people. Cheap goods increases sales volume. Consumers are happy becaue we can buy things cheaply. The IRS is happy because far more money is withheld from undocumented people than they claim in refunds because they are afraid of being caught, so even including services provided for undocumented people, we enjoy a net monetary gain..
:spit: :crackup: (I shrunk the stuff that I agree with) The rest of it... :rolleyes:

The undocumented people spend a significant portion of their income in the US, but drain it out in subtle ways through crime prevention, incarceration, education, medical and other expenses..
Quantify "significant". $5,000? $10,000? How much $$ do they send home? And the drain... It ain't cheep: http://www.10news.com/news/9620142/detail.html

Do you really want to do this? 8 years of a president who acts on instinct leaves me worried about going ahead without a careful plan, is all I'm saying.
Do what? Get rid of them all? Not sure. It would be very difficult and very expensive to deport 12 or 20 or 30 million illegal aliens. Ensure that it would be difficult to get back in (fence and more boarder patrols??), and then start with the criminals that are in jail. Then lets see where we are at. When and where did Bush act on instinct?? Post a link.



Chris
 

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Had to be instinct. Read what those who have worked closely with him say about his decision making style. He said " I don't do nuance." If you think that he has done well, we are so far apart in our views that we need to just agree to disagree without discussing it.

Back to the main topic, a solution. Tell me what is wrong with the Fred Thompson solution, other than putting the responsibility for excluding undocumented people from jobs where it belongs, on the corporations that hire them. If there are no jobs for them, they will go away and others will stop coming.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Back to the main topic, a solution. Tell me what is wrong with the Fred Thompson solution, other than putting the responsibility for excluding undocumented people from jobs where it belongs, on the corporations that hire them. If there are no jobs for them, they will go away and others will stop coming.
You continue to use the word undocumented and avoid using the word illegal..why is that?

You also say that the only reason the illegals come here is to work. There may be some that do, but the facts indicate that more come for the free ride than to work...there fore in my mind the entire premise of your "solution" will not work..

when we stop giving the freebies is when they will stop coming here... please keep in mind that the situation below are numbers for Los Angeles county only this same situation is happening in every jurisdiction in the united states.

You keep talking about employers...I don't know if you are familiar with a I 99 but it is the Federal form an employer gives to an employee which requires to forms of ID indicating residency.....

at the bottom of the form it tells the employer that it is illegal to try and find out if the documents presented are genuine!!!!!! go figure

WELFARE COSTS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS
IN LA COUNTY OVER $35 MILLION IN MAY
A new report shows illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $35 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in May, announced Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.

Illegals collected nearly $20 million in welfare assistance for May, 2007 and an additional $15 million in monthly food stamp allocations for an estimated annual cost of $440 million.

“Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers,” said Antonovich. “In addition to $220 million for public safety and $360 million for healthcare, the $440 million in welfare allocations bring the total cost to County taxpayers that exceeds $1 billion a year -- this does not include the skyrocketing cost of education.”
 
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