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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Lots of good advise so far. Mainly good tires, tire-warmers (mostly for tire longevity and a little confidence), and some suspension. Someone who really understands suspension can do wonders with the stock stuff. I know it's been mentioned, but fiberglass bodywork is a great small investment for a large piece of mind. I know you're tracking the bike because you can't sell right now, but you may want to one day. A simple lowside will trash your stock stuff, but you can likely easily repair fiberglass. Plus you can always swap out back to street to sell it if the situation arises. Good luck and have fun.

I've done the swapping with bodys before for peace of mind on a 636 I used to stunt. When I was done with the bike I put on the goods and sold. I know the 6's are better in the corners, but is that because they are smaller and can turn quicker?:dontknow: 1000cc bikes are obviously faster, but its the agility and faness in the corners the 6's dominate? I know that my 636's and smaller bikes just turn insane and the 10 doesn't as well. The 10r is what I have to track so thats what I'm a riden!
 
The 1k's are a little heavier, and that's part of the issue... but you can get a 1K to handle pretty sweet when you figure out what kind of inputs/set-up it takes. But as I see it, the 1k's are SO DAMN FAST: you're on the brakes so freakin' hard at the end of every straight, and the closing speed is so much higher that 9 times out of 10 you end up braking a whole lot deeper/harder than you want to (or need to). Top that off with the extra weight you have to lug around in the process and lap times fall down. Another big issue is getting back on the gas. Most 600's you can get on the gas early and aggressive out of the corners. You wind a 1K to the stop coming out of the corner and you'll end up on your head. So you end up braking too hard, upsetting your corner entry, and babying the gas on the way out.... feels like you're fighting and hauling ass for everything you're worth.... and you're just plain going slower than the smooth 600 guys. ;) When you learn on the 600's you seem to get a lot better feel for how much speed you can carry into a bend, and you get a lot more time feeling out the throttle on the exit before you have to replace bodywork :badteeth: The experience translates over to the bigger bikes, but not the other way around. Plain and simple: the bigger bikes just flat overwhelm most people into slower lap times.

But it's not impossible to learn on the 1K's. People do it all the time... it just takes patience and lots of seat time. And sometimes a lot of spare parts. :mrgreen:
 
Well... maybe the guys at ASR are just stupid fast then. :mrgreen: I'm about a middle of the pack amature racer there but a few of this seasons amatures are like 5 seconds away from lap record pace. My second gen's pegs get to be trouble. With the hero blobs remove the peg likes to 'dig' really bad as the corner/edge of the peg decks out. It's bad enough that it likes to grab my boots and try to pull them off the pegs :badteeth: Woodcrafts fixed the problem, but I barely touch those on the low settings here and there. My body position still needs a little work, but it's not bad enough to cause clearance issues.... I think. (http://www.highdesertracing.com/keyword/96/1/509143366_cQQJ8/Original) :) The bike is a little higher in back to boot. My laptimes suffer from braking and transitions... and getting on the gas a little too late/soft. I don't have a problem carring corner speed for the most part. :badteeth:

...mind you, it's not an issue with street tires for me. There's no way I could run that sort of lean angle consistantly on street tires. I like rearsets too because it's one more solid frame slider between the bike and the ground. I've had a stock rearset *snap* and puncture my clutch cover before. Fun stuff, there.
Once again, I totally agree with you as I also started dragging hard parts after switching to DOTs and even more with slicks. But as far as kawdude and just starting out I don't think he, or any new track rider, needs to use anything besides a good set of street/trackday tires.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing with you as I'm not. You have my respect as it sounds like one of the few guys on the site who actually know what they're talking about and has lots of actual track experience instead of just trying to look like/be ricky racer out on the street. :thumbsup:
 
I've done the swapping with bodys before for peace of mind on a 636 I used to stunt. When I was done with the bike I put on the goods and sold. I know the 6's are better in the corners, but is that because they are smaller and can turn quicker?:dontknow: 1000cc bikes are obviously faster, but its the agility and faness in the corners the 6's dominate? I know that my 636's and smaller bikes just turn insane and the 10 doesn't as well. The 10r is what I have to track so thats what I'm a riden!
I'm no racer, but have done several trackdays on the 10r and a 636. I had raised my forks by 5mm to compensate for tire height on a tire change, never lowered them back and it seemed to help turn in. For me, as far as turn in and handling, the 10r was pretty similar to the 636. It was just that I wasn't accelerating so hard between corners on the 636, which makes it seem so more relaxed getting it turned and on its side. And obviously, you can be much less judicial on throttle at corner exit on the 6r. I'd still be tracking a 10r if I hadn't just stumbled on a great deal on the 636, so I totally understand what your doing. On a positive note for the 1000, there's so much torque and useable powerband, attention to shifting becomes mush less important than on a 600. I think you'll enjoy tracking your 1000. Very exciting bike.
 
Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing with you as I'm not.
No worries at all, I don't feel like you're tugging my chain. :mrgreen:

I mentioned the DOT's and such for a couple reasons. I may get a flame for this, but I've found that the -serious- stunter types (the ones that are really good at it) learn *fast*, and are pretty damn good at roadracing when they start out. They posses all the necessary skills to begin with.... they just have to know how to apply them. :) Like I said up there, there are a few first-time roadrace amatures this year at our track that are unbelievably fast.... one of them is the drag race champion from the previous year. :eyecrazy: The guy is faster than several of the longtime experts... it's unreal.

I honestly feel that the DOT's give enough grip to do two things: Help the balls-out-racer/track rider keep the bike upright, and throw a generous blanket of traction over the mistakes of newbs like myself. :badteeth: The 10R has so much power and weight: I was pitching them at first as free insurance. If he can use all of their potential to go fast that's ace. If not, it'll give him a little extra buffer before a highside. If it were an SV650 or older 600 I wouldn't have put it so high on the list. But a 10R as a -dedicated- track bike (and that's a big point there) would seriously benifit from good rubber. As a dedicated track bike his skills will quickly grow to meet the need if he sticks with it.

At least, that's more what I was pitching towards. :wink: Some guys don't need it, and they never get much better... so I could be flat wrong too. Try this then kawadude636: Strip everything you can off, safetywire what you have to, and go run it on street tires at first. Almost every event has a trackside tire vendor/support, and you can decide then if you want to give the DOT tires a go. If nothing else, it will give you a good comparison & appreciation of the difference. You'r first couple times on track should be spent more towards learning the layout and lines, and proper etiquette and such. If you haven't been out to a track yet, that's probably the better option.... I was jumping the gun assuming that you were already a trackday regular. :)

G'luck!!
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
No trackday regular, but I've been riding 1000s for 6 years and 600's even longer. I also am no novice to high performance driving in cars on tracks or totally ridding my chicken strips. Thanks for all of the advice. I already had a feeling what you guys were gonna say and comment on. Nice to be reaffirmed. I let you know how it goes when I get her out there in a few weeks!
 
Vortex rearsets, CRG levers, braided brake lines, BMC air filter, Akrapovic exhaust, PC3, -1 sprocket on the front, D.I.D 525 x-ring chain, and the biggest and best investment; ohlins 20mm front fork kit and ohlins rear shock. The bike has seen more mountain miles than track miles, but it's all worth it. It has taken me 2 years to get it all put together to where it is now, but I just can't bring myself to sell it for a newer one.
 
Bro, I just came back from my first track day... It was all perfect, but one of the corners was a lil pumpy.. Becarefull plz from pumpy corners.

Anyways, I'm telling you this coz I lowsided at the very end of the track day!! Too bad for me, I guess, especially, when considering my brand new bike that had not dropped since the day it was born!

I went there absolutely STOCK with some miner upgrades like PC3 and Filter.

I learned that for better chances of success, I need to do the following:
1- change my tires to slick tires
2- I'm seriously thinking of installing a cage before the second attempt... Some would say that this will increase the bike's wieght, but hey, who cares if it help you get used to the track races, especially at the first couple of them.

And yes, I gotta mention, buy a GOOD leather suit and frame sliders if you dont want to have a cage. The suit has safed my ass big time or else I'd lying in bed for a week!

Ride safe!
 
...mind you, it's not an issue with street tires for me. There's no way I could run that sort of lean angle consistantly on street tires. I like rearsets too because it's one more solid frame slider between the bike and the ground. I've had a stock rearset *snap* and puncture my clutch cover before. Fun stuff, there.
bleh... The left side gilles rearset snapped clean off and put two holes in my engine cover. They're just aluminum.

You want my advice? Stay away from shit made in Europe. Get Vortex or woodcraft stuff, or be like me waiting 12 weeks (and counting...) for a rearset mount plate.
 
IMO way too much attention is being directed at tires. First, a track newbe absolutely does not need slicks. A PP or DC3 (pick your brand) is more than enough tire for getting started. I'm in my third year of tracks days and still use a DC3 (as do many others) on the rear with a SC Pro SC2 on the front.

I see many people crash on there first track day because they think they are much faster than they are, and try to keep up with others. It has been proven, that YOU CAN NOT LEARN to go fast, unless you slow down. Newbes should focus on body position, holding a line and most importantly being SMOOTH. Speed will come naturally once you begin to master these things. Far too many track riders (even some that are relatively fast) never master holding a line or being smooth. These people tend to crash regularly and always blame their tires, suspension etc. These people are also a danger to everyone else on the track. I can often pick out someone that will crash without seeing them ride, but by how they run their mouth.

This doesn't necessary mean that crashing is always caused by being stupid, as it can happen to anyone at any time. Of course racing is a whole different game and should not be confused with track days, but again some can't figure this out.

Buying expensive tires with a poorly setup suspension is pissing money away as you will just eat them up.

FWIW I was doing tracks before I got the 10R, but I bought it new just to do tracks days. I still ride on the street a little. I've done the following mods:

Penske double clicker shock
Forks custom rebuilt with Penske internals
Vortex rearsets
GPR
1/5 throttle
Champs sliders
SS brake lines / RJL pads
Safety wire filter / drain plug etc
Ivans TRE
Fender eliminator
Speedohealer
Tire warmers
XT Lap Timer
 
Don't mean to be a dick but other than a fresh set of tires you need NO MODS when you're starting out. Totally stock off the showroom floor the 10 and pretty much any sportbike made in the last decade is capable of much more than anyone around here can do.

Like I said, get a new set of street/trackday tires, any of the top brands will do. Make sure all the bikes parts are securely fastened where they're supposed to be, and that's pretty much it.

Instead of worrying about having your bike be "race-ready", just concentrate on riding and learning the track.
i have to agree with this, i just started and our bikes have INSANE potential. it is incomprehensible until you actually get out there.

but I do have the brake upgrade which IMO is a must for street or track..the stockers blow

def. brake upgrade:
CBR Calipers w/ ebc HH pads
SS lines (f/r)
Good Brake fluid
Levers (not necessarily necessary but feels amazing)

thats it for me. rear sets are nice and crash protection too but so far so good! (how ever both are on order :wink:)
 
IMO way too much attention is being directed at tires. First, a track newbe absolutely does not need slicks. A PP or DC3 (pick your brand) is more than enough tire for getting started. I'm in my third year of tracks days and still use a DC3 (as do many others) on the rear with a SC Pro SC2 on the front.

I see many people crash on there first track day because they think they are much faster than they are, and try to keep up with others. It has been proven, that YOU CAN NOT LEARN to go fast, unless you slow down. Newbes should focus on body position, holding a line and most importantly being SMOOTH. Speed will come naturally once you begin to master these things. Far too many track riders (even some that are relatively fast) never master holding a line or being smooth. These people tend to crash regularly and always blame their tires, suspension etc. These people are also a danger to everyone else on the track. I can often pick out someone that will crash without seeing them ride, but by how they run their mouth.

This doesn't necessary mean that crashing is always caused by being stupid, as it can happen to anyone at any time. Of course racing is a whole different game and should not be confused with track days, but again some can't figure this out.

Buying expensive tires with a poorly setup suspension is pissing money away as you will just eat them up.

FWIW I was doing tracks before I got the 10R, but I bought it new just to do tracks days. I still ride on the street a little. I've done the following mods:

Penske double clicker shock
Forks custom rebuilt with Penske internals
Vortex rearsets
GPR
1/5 throttle
Champs sliders
SS brake lines / RJL pads
Safety wire filter / drain plug etc
Ivans TRE
Fender eliminator
Speedohealer
Tire warmers
XT Lap Timer
what are you using for engine cases? I just found the circut one's both sides for $100 bucks!!
 
Well, she's not selling, I'm not selling her and now its time to trick her out for the track.

track riders/racers I need your valuable input. What modifications have you made to your 10r for the track? Anything be it from tires-rearsets, I want to know. Also mods like flies gone etc. What extra weight that comes stock can I eliminate? What are my first must have mods and on and on? What have you guys done to your tens? I want to know all. I was going to wait and track a 636, but I'm not going to give away my 10r for what they are going because people are hard up for cash. Thanks very much for your invaluable information. Also for handling in corners has anyone lowered the front end a little, and any other tips on setting up suspension for making the 10r handle better in corners. A 6rr/636 and 10r are like night and day for me in the corners.
Since your new I would suggest that you need not worry about go fast parts. Tires and Suspension are all you need with seat time. As you get faster all your settings change. Don't worry about making things shinny and new cause if your serious about the sport you are going to crash. Other than tires and suspension I would recommend good gear and case covers for your engine. Untill you notice brake fade, stock brake pads are fine. Guys will talk there heads off about dampers but I doubt half of them have every expireanced any sort of head shake under acceleration, propper suspension set up (i.e sag) will eliminate that.

Mybest advice for you is to take it slow, don't try and break any lap records at first, that's hard advice to follow I know. Try and learn what you are doing on the bike and what the bike is doing when you give any inputs to it. Once you can go out a full session and ride relaxed at speed and breath, then start working on going in deeper and rolling on the throttle sooner comming out. Body position everywhere on the track can never be over looked either.... In the straights, entering a turn, in the turn, exiting the turn. Talk to instructers from the trackday provider, and don't be affraid to ask what you might think are dumb questions. Keep your vision up, the farther you look the smoother you can be, and riding smooth is the key to being quick.

Have fun dude and dont go bankrupt, Im negative in my account right now from this sport:cool:
 
IMO way too much attention is being directed at tires. First, a track newbe absolutely does not need slicks. A PP or DC3 (pick your brand) is more than enough tire for getting started. I'm in my third year of tracks days and still use a DC3 (as do many others) on the rear with a SC Pro SC2 on the front.

I see many people crash on there first track day because they think they are much faster than they are, and try to keep up with others. It has been proven, that YOU CAN NOT LEARN to go fast, unless you slow down. Newbes should focus on body position, holding a line and most importantly being SMOOTH. Speed will come naturally once you begin to master these things. Far too many track riders (even some that are relatively fast) never master holding a line or being smooth. These people tend to crash regularly and always blame their tires, suspension etc. These people are also a danger to everyone else on the track. I can often pick out someone that will crash without seeing them ride, but by how they run their mouth.

This doesn't necessary mean that crashing is always caused by being stupid, as it can happen to anyone at any time. Of course racing is a whole different game and should not be confused with track days, but again some can't figure this out.

Buying expensive tires with a poorly setup suspension is pissing money away as you will just eat them up.

FWIW I was doing tracks before I got the 10R, but I bought it new just to do tracks days. I still ride on the street a little. I've done the following mods:

Penske double clicker shock
Forks custom rebuilt with Penske internals
Vortex rearsets
GPR
1/5 throttle
Champs sliders
SS brake lines / RJL pads
Safety wire filter / drain plug etc
Ivans TRE
Fender eliminator
Speedohealer
Tire warmers
XT Lap Timer
I should have read this first and just :+1: it.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
ninja 187 I'm my accounts are always being depleated from motorsports, the bikes are truly killing me, but I love every second of it...As far as the track riding goes, I'm so addicted now I think I should seek help...seriously!!!
 
Set up your suspension. Get the proper spring rates... rear most likely will set you off until you get faster and start to plow the front. The front springs on the 2nd gen are .98 so they were fine for me after a valve job. The rear i actually got from a member on .net and rebuilt it. Rates are really important. :2cents: Learn how to do suspension tuning yourself from a good book or class, it will save thousands in the long run. The bike will fly when stock. i ran my stock setup for a long time before i started to plow the front. Brakes are a def upgrade(thank you honda :).

Learning how to improve yourself is the most important bit. Read a book to understand motorcycle physics... it helps a lot to know what inputs give you certain outputs.

Break the track up into sections. Then work out each section and bring them together. CR riders should help you. Get a lapper ultra xt starlane etc. not to break records but to use it as a tool to see if adjusments you made to yourself are helping you go faster or slower.


Don't worry about making things shinny and new cause if your serious about the sport you are going to crash.
Isnt that the truth!
 
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