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Esd possible solution?

23K views 113 replies 27 participants last post by  Mglayzer1 
#1 ·
As everyone knows the esd on gen4 and 5 is as standard completely useless.
The usual fix is a race damper ecu at a high price that i personally cannot afford.
I thought id investigate ways to improve it.
Firstly i removed the damper and to my suprise it actually does damp a little when off the bike but.
Next i wired it up and powered the bike up and the damper motor does a complete cycle prior to startup.
If you pull the damper whilst it is doing this cycle the damper goes very stiff then back to normal.
Now this to me proves the damper is very capable but its just wound off too much as standard.
So my idea is to power up the damper to wind the motor up so its slightly stiffer then remove the power and leave it unplugged in the stiffer position.
Obviously this will throw up an error code but if it works well i could buy another sensor to plug in and leave tucked away under the tank.
Whats your thoughts on this?
 
#2 ·
I'm hoping that someday, somebody will be able to flash the OEM control unit with the race program that comes in the aftermarket Ohlins SCU.

I also saw a used Ohlins SCU for sale here once. Maybe another will come up when somebody's track bike gets parted out.
 
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#3 ·
As a owner of the aftermarket Ohlins SCU with my 2013 gen4 and i must say it makes it 100% better. I would say save your pennies and get it. I know it is a little pricey but it is worth it IMO! :grin2:

PM Mike @RidersDiscount or visit there website https://www.ridersdiscount.com he matched me the lowest price online for my SCU and they are a site sponsor so why not support them! :thumbsup:
 
#5 ·
This is dangerous. The software is calibrated to offer damping preemptively based on a lot of factors. Without knowing the actual damping rates, the ECU won't know what is happening since it's open-loop with no feedback. The ECU could very easily command a rate that would lock (or close to it) if you start screwing with this. I highly recommend you don't fuck with it.
 
#6 ·
I meant adjust the damper up and disconnect it from the ecu so it is set at that position all the time just like a manual damper works. I know its a dangerous area to play with hence i would set it up off the bike first.
Ive just brought a house and litterally cannot afford a penny to be spent on my bike for some time to come.
Plus the mrs will kill me lol.
But ive always been bugged by the esd. Its frustrating having a good damper on your bike thats effectively turned off.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I know the best bet is a proper manual one but your fogetting i have no money what so ever available for my bike. I cant do trackdays for a while but my bike shakes like this on the road too.
I am doing a few tweaks to get more weight over the front but i need a free damper mod until i can get my house sorted. Im an engineer so i could make something to hold the adjusting needle in place i spose if its not too complicated. Has anyone ever taken one of these appart?
 
#16 ·
easy solution, no money... park the bike. don't over engineer something with upgrades already in place, or available, that could cost you more than just money.

you can buy a used kawi ohlins oem stock damper from a zx6r, or zx10r prior to 2012, have it revalved to REAL ohlins specs by kyle racing in the usa for VERY REASONABLE. if you cant do that, don't make changes to you damper that could cost you your life, or cause you to affect another riders (or their family's) life.

not worth it. if you cant see that, we cant help you. Ski
 
#18 ·
Well i have switched ignition in and unplugged the damper mid cycle and its now slightly stiffer to move.
I think your over reacting.
The damper doesnt lock. Its got an adjuster that goes from barely on to quite stiff.
Ive wound mine half way ish and its stayed there.
I just need to know what will happen if inleave it unplugged?
Will it make changes to the bkes running?
 
#19 ·
a) How many wires go to damper? If 4 or 6 wires then damper has probably stepper motor inside. Measure resistanses between wires (connector unplugged) to identify motor coils.

b) Plug back connector, start bike, let damper motor to wind needle to fixed position and measure voltages at coils wires. Now when damper motor is idle, then I guess there is still DC voltage applied to at least one coil. If it is then electronics is holding motor shaft blocked with it.

c) If a and b are true, then do your procedure of disconnecting connector mid startup cycle (stiffness to your liking), but now with damper connectior disconnected I would apply permanent voltage (voltege when bike is running) (possibly through resistor) to at least one coil. This prevents motor shaft (needle) moving with vibration.

P.S. To ECU side put resistors instead of motor coils (with same resistanse as coils) to prevent error code.
 
#23 ·
As i said prior i have no money. Im lucky ive been able to keep my bike when buying a house. Here in uk the house prices are so high.
I should realistically sell my bike but i will try my upmost for that to not happen. Im no rossi but im fairly talented on a bike so at present if im to keep on riding ive got to do it on a shoe string.
I have a damper that works superb fitted to the bike as standard but its just turned down by the stock ecu so im determined to create a fix for this at zero cost.
Does anyone have that youtube link to the esd that got taken appart. Been searching but just cant find it?
 
#27 ·
Well ignored all the warnings and tested the bike today with the damper wound up about 1/4 and unplugged. It was great. Loads better than before and full power too. Not keen on leaving it like this so looking to make an adapter to hold pin where it is.
 
#28 ·
oem damper is np but you have to focus on how to ride loose meaning you HAVE to figure out how to ride inside the comfort zone at speed. What happens once in the zone OVER TIME is that everything feels slow and easy but the lap time shows fast. Pure zen right there. Rossi and all the top pros know this secret AND the ONLY way to get there is to ride all the time. That means the track is NOT part of the big picture. You have to ride empty twist roads to get a feel for being dialed into any superbike. Pure mystical magic or rather, just simple sense is realized once you arrived at that level of riding understanding.
 
#29 ·
Blimey are you high or something lol. Sounds like some deep stuff lol.
I think i know what you mean and i am very experienced and very relaxed when riding.
Sometimes too relaxed.
But im afraid there is no kind of riding style that can overcome the shakes i was getting.
If your coming onto the back straight at brands hatch your going from full lean angle left in second gear and then excellerating hard and setting up for the right kink whilst going over the hill and you just have the pull the bars to make that happen.
On my gen1 the hyperpro damper controlled it so well over the same hill so its not my style. Its just the lack of damping force.
Virtually no force as standard on mine and the zx10s have always been know to need a damper more than any other bike due to its peaky power delivery.
Im really happy now though. The feel from it now instantly gave me more confidence and wasnt as scary at speed.
 
#31 ·
Its not as simple as jumpering shit out, wiring in a resistor, voltage dividers or any of that shit. If it were, I would have already had a hardware solution for people. Have been trying to work on that for probably 3 years now before hitting the dead end.

It's also not as simple as a "reflash" as the main FI ECU has ZERO control over it. This has been gone over several hundred times over by myself and others. Again, for the record, for about the hundredth time, the main FI ECU has JACK SHIT to do with the ESD. Reflashing the main FI ECU isn't going to do shit.... in the big picture the Ohlins SCU reigns supreme. The main FI ECU only passes on info to the Ohlins SCU. The Ohlins SCU throws the codes/lights... NOT the main FI ECU

Want to eliminate the Ohlins SCU with a "simple flash" of the ECU? Then you better start dumping the ECU on your own, developing your own ECU definitions, and the start logging and developing your own CAN bus packet injections to simulate every single address/variable that the Ohlins SCU wants and can accept in order to simulate that hardware side of things without anything extra on top of the OEM hardware. Its the same for ABS... custom packet injections. Hence why it hasn't been done... way too much effort involved when there are easier (and better) hardware solutions out there.

Easy solution? Yank the ESD, fit a manual one and just learn to deal with the light on the dash. (IT WILL NOT PUT THE BIKE IN TO A LIMP MODE NO MATTER WHAT OTHERS SAY)


Bit more involved solution? Disassemble the ESD assembly, keep the motor attached to the harness and tucked away, fit a manual damper in it's place. No lights, no codes, nada. Just go on as you normally would.
Jeez you sound pissed off mate. Understandibly so though as i know electronics can be a nightmare.
The best fix in my opinion is the manual damper as the race scu is not adjustable and might not be to everyones liking.
Plus I think these esd are a gimmick because if they dont work as standard then whats the point of having one.
Ok you can buy a race scu but in my opinion they should be alot better from the showroom.
I was concerened about the steering feeling like a flat tyre now i wound it up a bit but it doesnt feel like that at all.
When you are rolling you hardly turn the bars so you need a hell of a lot of damping before you loose steering feel.
I can live with a bit of tape over the light.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Rode my bike hard today and not 1 shake!!!
Anyhow im looking to make a valve at work to keep my damper set all the time in this position.
The standard needle valve has 3mm of movement but mine was just over 0.5mm out to make it better.
But first i could do with some info on the needle.
Does anyone know exactly what the holes are for in the pin? One down the center and 2 on the sides.
Heres a vid https://youtu.be/9YeaHIL33UE
 
#35 ·
Well i designed it yesterday and this is the final shape that seems to offer the most damping without going to the point where it starts to notice.
There is no flat tyre feel and the bike steers perfect but i just cant get it to wobble at all which is great news.
Going to be machined down so it just looks like a small cap in the end of the damper ?
 
#36 ·
Wow, nice! Now if you could make it two parts that are threaded so it can be manually adjusted it would be perfect! :) I know it's not cheap (in labor/time) to produce something like that so not sure it would be cost effective to mass produce but I would be interested in something like that. I can't imagine a "high" demand though, maybe in the hundreds?
 
#37 ·
I spent time trying to think of an easy way to make it adjustable but like you say its not going to be cost effective.
Plus it could leak oil which would be a disaster.
This was the best and cheapest way i could uprate the damper just by tuning the needle length so the damper is actually working. You can hear it working now.
I believe it would cost twice to three times as much to make it adjustable which would defeat the object of a cheap fix on the standard damper. In the uk the ohlins dcu is around 300 pounds. An ohlins race damper is about 300 pounds. A standard gen4 manual damper is about 150 second hand. I recon i can make these for 50 pounds so it should be a seller.
 
#38 · (Edited)
On the manual damper you have to also figure in the cost of a re-valve because the stock manual damper is just as useless as the stock ESD without the re-valve. Also, I've been riding my 2014 the last few days with the ESD and the Ohlins race SCU and I found myself wanting more damping than even that provided. I think because I have been running the re-valved manual damper on my 2016 ZX10 and got comfortable with more damping on it. Maybe you could make the part with different length needles so you could pick your preferred level of damping.
 
#42 ·
Been busy today. Made 50 valves.
They weigh just 8 grams.
Made mostly +0.5mm as thats what i tested.
Then made some 0.75mm and 1.0mm.
But ive tested them all tonight and i think i personally would only be happy selling 0.5mm for road use as 0.75mm is a fair bit stiffer.
1.0mm is a no go. There is no way i can sell them as the bars are noticably stiffer to turn.
I think i might just go 0.5mm and 0.6mm. Maybe 0.75 may be of some use for drag racers?

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