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Discussion Starter #1
So I've got an 07 gen 2 zx10r and absolutely love her to death. Just about to install an arrow exhaust with decat link pipe!
I plan on doing a dyno tune after. My questions are if I do an ECU flash how much top speed would I gain? I've heard it's not necessary on gen 2 but is there really no gain at all ?
Also of I get a dyno tune do i need a power commander or can they put the custom map in my ECU?
I guess im just confused on wether I need a power commander, if an ECU is worth $75 flashed and what's the benefit or difference between one or the other or without vise versa?
I don't want someone telling me I can't go over 185 ?
 

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You'll definitely need a Power Commander or something similar. I don't believe that the gen 2 can be flashed or will see any benefits to a flash-but don't take my word for it. I don't recall 100% on that one.

If you haven't done it already, I'd very highly recommend doing something about the front brakes. Oh, and get the suspension sorted out if you haven't been down that road as well.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, did you buy the Arrow new? I always liked the look of Arrow. If so, where from? I didn't think there were exhausts still available. I've got a LV on my 2nd gen and it looks great but the stock system is more appropriate for my needs. One of these days I'll buy a new exhaust servo and slap the OEM stuff back on.
 

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There is definitely some gains to be had with a flash on the 2nd gen. Had mine flashed and it was a whole new beast.
Mine was tuned on a dyno then I later found out about flashing it and got it flashed after the tuning. That wasn't ideal but it damn sure ran like a scalded dog. I had a PC3 to take care of the tuning but I believe ours fuel maps can be tuned through the ECU, don't quote me on that though.

I'll be getting mine reflashed soon since the shop apparently "lost" my flashed ECU the last time they were working on it, but I know better than that, someone stole my shit.
 

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Getting your ecu flashed and putting a power commander on and having it retuned is like getting a hair cut at one place, then driving to another place and getting it finished at another hair cut place lol. With all these great technologies available I can't believe people still buy power commanders that cause more problems than it's worth, which can be found by just using google search, pages upon pages of nothing but problems.

Either find a place that can dyno tune and edit your ecu right there on the spot or look for something like a stand alone ecu.
 

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Power commanders are the past and can go bad ecu flash is the way to go!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 

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You don't get many of the benefits of the newer gen bikes as you're not limited by software on your bike. However, it is cheaper to get a proper flash that is tuned for your bike like from 2 Wheel DynoWorks. Instead of buying a Power Commander and Ignition Module (each $300+) plus paying for a dyno tune ($200+), you just pay a flat rate for the ecu flash ($350) which should include the custom fueling and ignition timing already in it, plus a few more little things that'll help. So, instead of needing a buncha extra crap that'll fail in a few years, you just flash the ecu and call it good.
 

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Even if a bike is the same year, with the same air filter, with the same exhaust arrangement - each bike is, potentially, an individual. That's why there's exceptions and some bikes "like" a particular pipe specific "canned" flash and some don't.
Since there's no predicting which bike will "like" a particular ecu flash, I almost always dyno test local bikes with load and 4 gas EGA and hp as readouts.est Canned maps are never "as good as it gets" in regards to power and smoothness.
So, tuning to Best Power at a selected rpm is like shooting artillery, add little fuel, power gets a little better, add a little more fuel, power gets better, add a little more and power drops a little- so drop the fuel back down a bit and retest for Best Power under load. Each one of those fuel changes can be as small as .2 to .3 loaded hp.
It's not short and simple like tuning to an AFR and ignoring hp.
Making 200+ changes and having to flash the ecu for each change would take days and few people searching for Best Power want to "save money by not buying a pc5" if the alternative is ~$2000 (tuning to an AFR is cheaper).
A pc3/pc5 (or sim) allows almost realtime changes and allows us to do Best Power mapping in way less time.
 

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Instead of buying a Power Commander and Ignition Module (each $300+) plus paying for a dyno tune ($200+), you just pay a flat rate for the ecu flash ($350) which should include the custom fueling and ignition timing already in it, plus a few more little things that'll help. So, instead of needing a buncha extra crap that'll fail in a few years, you just flash the ecu and call it good.
I know..... nobody asked me, but.....

If I was flashing the ecu and tuning the fuel to Best Power, I'd soldier through the ign tuning in the ecu and tune the fuel w a power commander - for best results.

That being said, I have a used 08-10 zx10r pc3 and Ign Module that I found on a shelf. Probably a take-off and I assume that one of the modules is prob bad.
$40 inc usa shipping. [email protected]
 

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Interesting. I guess you can teach an old dog (me) new tricks. I really didn't think the 2nd was something they could or would bother to flash. I'll keep this in mind if my Power Commander takes a dump.
 

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After reading the other replies, I have to comment. My bike Gen 3 (08), Akra evo, full Bazzaz BMC race, Dymag CF wheels, lith bat, other wt. reductions (396 lbs with 2 gal fuel). Unless you purchase software to reflash your ECU yourself, you are going to get a fixed reflash that is designed to work with a specific engine configuration, which may or may not be the configuration your engine has. Also, if you make changes to the engine after the reflash, then you should update the reflash. You could be doing this many times over. Therein lies the benefit/advantage of a programmable aftermarket unit. I chose the Bazzaz (ZFi-TC with self mapping) because I believe it is the superior unit. It works very well. I did send my ECU for reflash, but only to remove/alter the safety features that Kawasaki puts in the ECU - like delayed opening of secondaries. I specifically told them NOT to modify the fuel maps. That is what the Bazzaz unit is for, plus I wanted to start from a known starting point. I do pay for dyno time, but I tell them exactly what to do. BTW, don't be guided only by A/F ratio. Let it fall where it may. Max power is what you want (unless you want an econo map) and there isn't a fixed optimum A/F for all bikes under all conditions, contrary to what many believe.
 

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As this is a 07 I would say get either a fuel tuning++ flash or a tune with a PCV, but either needs to be done in a shop on a dyno with your bike. Whatever is cheaper and available near you. The other options you get from a flash will probably not justify paying more. As others also say, mail-in flash fuel maps may or may not work good for you. I know the Woolich package claims to remove the top speed limiter for gen 2, but I don`t know if this is correct. I thought the general consensus was that there is no limiter on the gen 2. But I could be wrong.
 

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After reading the other replies, I have to comment. My bike Gen 3 (08), Akra evo, full Bazzaz BMC race, Dymag CF wheels, lith bat, other wt. reductions (396 lbs with 2 gal fuel). Unless you purchase software to reflash your ECU yourself, you are going to get a fixed reflash that is designed to work with a specific engine configuration, which may or may not be the configuration your engine has. Also, if you make changes to the engine after the reflash, then you should update the reflash. You could be doing this many times over. Therein lies the benefit/advantage of a programmable aftermarket unit. I chose the Bazzaz (ZFi-TC with self mapping) because I believe it is the superior unit. It works very well. I did send my ECU for reflash, but only to remove/alter the safety features that Kawasaki puts in the ECU - like delayed opening of secondaries. I specifically told them NOT to modify the fuel maps. That is what the Bazzaz unit is for, plus I wanted to start from a known starting point. I do pay for dyno time, but I tell them exactly what to do. BTW, don't be guided only by A/F ratio. Let it fall where it may. Max power is what you want (unless you want an econo map) and there isn't a fixed optimum A/F for all bikes under all conditions, contrary to what many believe.
The way you make power is with proper ignition map. Bazzaz doesn't have ability to adjust ignition maps, unit is a waste of money.
 

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I go to the track and log all my passes, then overlay either speed or rpm and see exactly where I am making more power, where I am losing power, and how much actual power the bike putting down at the tire. It works quiet good.
 

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only seen one pc3 fail in many years working on all makes of sportbikes. personally my favorite afr tuning device, even on 8 injector bikes. simple and with a good dyno tune fueling very consistient. dsbats 430 hp/247 mph turbo gen 2 was tuned with a pc3. last street turbo i did made 293 hp and still running strong. my gen 2 street bike has pc3 fueling, runs 132 in 1/8 and 160 in 1/4.got 2 gen 1 10's around here almost as fast on pc3's. timing stk on these zx10's. lots of devices for tuning bikes now, just saying the pc3 has delivered great hp/torque thru the powerband for me on a lot of bikes when tuned correctley.
 

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The way you make power is with proper ignition map. Bazzaz doesn't have ability to adjust ignition maps, unit is a waste of money.
Do you have any performance gain numbers to share for a gen 2? Not arguing here, I`m asking because I`m considering buying the Woolich package later to experiment with my ignition maps. But except from Ivans gen 1/gen 2 dyno numbers which show very little to be gained there is not much hard numbers around. I remember having a factory pro +4 static advancer on my zx-9r 16 years ago. It didn`t do much either. Seems to me these bikes are pretty well mapped ignition wise (but on the safe side) as long as there is no restriction built in the map. Not talking about for a built engine here, only with bolt-ons and normal pump gas. Any info to share would be great.
 

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Do you have any performance gain numbers to share for a gen 2? Not arguing here, I`m asking because I`m considering buying the Woolich package later to experiment with my ignition maps. But except from Ivans gen 1/gen 2 dyno numbers which show very little to be gained there is not much hard numbers around. I remember having a factory pro +4 static advancer on my zx-9r 16 years ago. It didn`t do much either. Seems to me these bikes are pretty well mapped ignition wise (but on the safe side) as long as there is no restriction built in the map. Not talking about for a built engine here, only with bolt-ons and normal pump gas. Any info to share would be great.

Stock gen2 with a stand alone ecu that costs less than Woolich, tuned it at the track and went from running 10.0 at 140mph 9.8 at 147.9 mph
https://youtu.be/SorVjfP9oSw you could feel the difference in power.............and that was compared to dynotuned bike with a bazzaz.

and mpg went from 37mpg to 50mpg using closed loop ego control https://youtu.be/wz2mZpkImpI, it controls air shifter, quick shifter, launch control, you can add knock control, there is boost control, and nitrous control, you can add flex fuel sensor........... and bunch of other things. There are no maps to switch, you can view data via bluetooth on android device. It's 2017.........the technology is amazing. Buying 20 year old outdated tech is just foolish.


My current bike is getting a turbo and 1000cc injectors...............using the same ecu.
 

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Stock gen2 with a stand alone ecu that costs less than Woolich, tuned it at the track and went from running 10.0 at 140mph 9.8 at 147.9 mph
https://youtu.be/SorVjfP9oSw you could feel the difference in power.............and that was compared to dynotuned bike with a bazzaz.

and mpg went from 37mpg to 50mpg using closed loop ego control https://youtu.be/wz2mZpkImpI, it controls air shifter, quick shifter, launch control, you can add knock control, there is boost control, and nitrous control, you can add flex fuel sensor........... and bunch of other things. There are no maps to switch, you can view data via bluetooth on android device. It's 2017.........the technology is amazing. Buying 20 year old outdated tech is just foolish.


My current bike is getting a turbo and 1000cc injectors...............using the same ecu.
Thanks, some good runs there! That`s a great result if you`re saying its from the ignition map changes alone.
I noticed you had different afr`s. Which one made the best time?

No doubt about the stand alone ecu`s being incredibly flexible and the best option. Didn`t know microsquirt had a plug and play unit for our stock harness. That`s pretty cool. Otherwise the install cost would be pricey for the average joe to pay somebody to do it.
 

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Thanks, some good runs there! That`s a great result if you`re saying its from the ignition map changes alone.
I noticed you had different afr`s. Which one made the best time?

No doubt about the stand alone ecu`s being incredibly flexible and the best option. Didn`t know microsquirt had a plug and play unit for our stock harness. That`s pretty cool. Otherwise the install cost would be pricey for the average joe to pay somebody to do it.
best time was achieved with correct ignition map, afr doesn't have much effect on power unless you're waaaaaaaaaaaay off.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey y'all sorry for not replying I didn't expect anyone to respond.
So I got my new arrow exhaust installed with a decat y pipe and went ahead with the ECU flash with a dyno tune.
I know someone already mentioned it but the fueling can be saved to the ecu it turns out!
So before the tune I was at 160 rwhp and after the tune I'm at 172 tho. Lol quite a good result is what the guy said and he's super serious no bullshit with his work.
 
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