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Discussion Starter #1
I can get a cheap dyno tune but he doesnt read A/F ratios. The tuner feels that if the bike is making power then A/F ratios must be right. What do you guys think about his theory? I am contemplating removing the secondaries but dont want to have to spend $300 with a tuner that reads A/F ratios versuses $100 with a guy that doesnt read A/F ratios.

Basically what I am asking is does a dyno tuner need to read A/F ratios to get a proper tune on my 06 10R that has the secondary flies pulled?
 

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I can get a cheap dyno tune but he doesnt read A/F ratios. The tuner feels that if the bike is making power then A/F ratios must be right. What do you guys think about his theory? I am contemplating removing the secondaries but dont want to have to spend $300 with a tuner that reads A/F ratios versuses $100 with a guy that doesnt read A/F ratios.

Basically what I am asking is does a dyno tuner need to read A/F ratios to get a proper tune on my 06 10R that has the secondary flies pulled?
You can't tune a bike without A/F or carbon readings. Each bike will make different amounts of power, even two ZX-10R's same year off the showroom floor so that sounds absurd to me.

The first tuner I took my bike charged me 150 for baseline one day and tuning the next, and let me tell you that sucked. It was on an ATV dyno and the A/F was correct on his dyno, but extremely lean on a brand new 250i.

The second tuner I took it to had the tuning link and used that to tune it to an A/F ratio that I requested, costed me 237.xx but WELL worth it, couldn't believe the difference after the second tuning.

So basically, pull your flies and spend your money, I know it's a lot more but it's much better.

Haha oh yeah, after I told the tuner at Fenders, that I had gotten my bike tuned before him at Van Wall he gave me a pretty dirty look.
 

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Speed Freak
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yeah for sure bring it to someone who can read air fuel's and request a before and after to show that your air fuel is correct as well... W give people a before and after reading always to show what we do just because people want a visualization of the well worth money they spend.... dont concentrate on peak power as well. a good all around tune will make that puppy have awesome throttle response and great gas millage as well!!!
 

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Speed Freak
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for wide open throttle about 13:1 is good, but good tuners know that the bikes lean out when under ram air pressure... that is if you bring the bike up to those speeds... I had my buddy at the shop our dyno tuner tune it to about 12.4-12.5:1 on the dyno and it leaned out to 12.9-13:1 on the street which I think makes amazing power.

for cruising upwards of 14.5:1 are great for great gas millage and crisp throttle!
 

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Just my 2 cents...

If he doesn't initally tune by A/F ratios, he won't know which way to go with the fuel mods to start.

You ASSUME you'll need more fuel when you pull the secondaries, but what about at different parts of the map? Is it rich or lean? No way to tell without an A/F monitor.

If you've ever tuned a bike, sometimes fuel map changes can result in some unexpected A/F results. Sometimes overshooting the target A/F whatever you are aiming for.

NOW, that said, after you get the A/F ratio roughed out, the very best tuners will go back and tune for best power. And yes, ignore the A/F readings for a while.

BTW, there really is NO optimal A/F ratio. 12.8:1 has traditionally been considered optimal for WOT, but some engines like to run leaner (up to 13:1), some richer (12.5:1). It depends on a lot of factors like cam timing, combustion chamber efficiency, etc. Yeah, and ram air can change things around. Only way to simulate that really is to get a wideband datalogger otherwise you're just guessing. And as mentioned above, 14.7:1 or leaner at cruise and light throttle for fuel economy.

Make sure you block off the exhaust air valve when taking the measurments too.
 

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I usually tune to 12.8 and it will be around 13.0 in fifth gear on the logger with ram air. You can tune it for power without A/f but having the a/f will make the tune much quicker and easier. eventually they should tune it for peak power and then richen it up a bit to cover the ram air effect which will result in a lower dyno # but it will be right in fifth and sixth gear. :thumbsup:
 

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def go get it tuned with the guy doin it by a/f ratios.....the bike will make better power and will be much much smoother, it will not have "holes" in the map that way and it will be much better for on/off thrttle changes as well
 

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Postwhore with an 04
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Dyno tuning makes all the difference in the world. I used to have so many problems with my Mustang (Its N/A but has the works) and I finally took it to get dyno tuned by someone that is a renowned tuner and what a difference. I'm working on my bike over the winter but once I'm done I think I am going to make the drive to New York and have Ivan dyno tune it :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
bcm0018 I live in Wilkes-Barre, PA. I should go to Ivan as well. Might as well go to the best in the area. I have spoken with him over the phone, a year ago and he definitely knows his shit.

It would be a nice ride let me know if you are up for it early in the spring. I am pull'n the flies and definitely need a good tune.
 

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Postwhore with an 04
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I'm definitely down for it! I'm doing cams, thin HG, Ignition module, and pullin my flies so I will desperately need it.
 

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Like everyone's said, I wouldn't trust tuning without an A/F reading. Just shop around first. $300 better be a pretty good and well known tuner. I have a friend getting his turbo gsxr-750 tuned for $200 at a well known shop down here.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm definitely down for it! I'm doing cams, thin HG, Ignition module, and pullin my flies so I will desperately need it.
I sold my kawi race cam a couple months ago, I honestly dont think I need it right now. I also sold my full system LeoVince and I am patiently awaiting UPS to bring my new exhaust to my door :thumbsup: The only power adders I am adding this season is a new exhaust and pull'n the flies. O yeah...and a good tune!

It is going to be interesting to see how are bikes compare on the same dyno/tuner!
 

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Postwhore with an 04
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I sold my kawi race cam a couple months ago, I honestly dont think I need it right now. I also sold my full system LeoVince and I am patiently awaiting UPS to bring my new exhaust to my door :thumbsup: The only power adders I am adding this season is a new exhaust and pull'n the flies. O yeah...and a good tune!

It is going to be interesting to see how are bikes compare on the same dyno/tuner!
Yeah it will. I had a kawi intake cam but sold it and got some maxcycle cams through garth. I think I have everything short of head/engine work power wise :mrgreen:
 
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