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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
hi i went to dynojet center with retarder/brake and had my bike tuned for max power, i walked away with 2 or 3 bhp in places extra, then rode it about a bit and noticed that in 6th gear at full throttle if i backed it off then there was more power, it was not like having a throttle, anything above 60% i could hear the engine running lean, so after looking at the stock map for a zzr1400 i noticed the map they had for it had about 20-25 taken out of the top ie it read -24 in places so i decided to add lots of fuel on my map for my 10r i added 10-12 for 80% throttle, and added 18 for full throttle. i added the fuel from around 4000rpm to my amazement the engine did not splutter or cough it pulled with working throttle like it never has before.

SO THE ANSWER HERE IS THAT THE RAM AIR IS LEANING THE FUEL RIGHT OFF AT ANYTHING ABOVE 80 MPH..

Who else is going to try it?
 

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The ram air effect will lean things out a bit in comparison to tuning with a static dyno. I think it is possible that they screwed up mapping your bike because it should not be so drastic. Do you know if they plugged the AIS system? That certainly could affect things.
 

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the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.
er hello what the hell is the hole in the front of the fairing? it feeds the airbox,

kawasaki invented ram air on bikes
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The ram air effect will lean things out a bit in comparison to tuning with a static dyno. I think it is possible that they screwed up mapping your bike because it should not be so drastic. Do you know if they plugged the AIS system? That certainly could affect things.
i went the the dynojet uk importers they sell and teach operators how to use them and pioneer the dyno jet kits in the uk so yes it was set up right, just with static air nothing blown on the fairing to fans at the rad from each side of the bike inline with the top on the front wheel.

Just not how it works in the real world try your bike i know lots of people with this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.
or did i read you wrong ? you mean it dont have ram air when on the dyno?
 

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Speed Freak
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You should maybe check to see if you can find a factory pro dyno, they use a 4 gas analyzer which goes by CO readings. If you want a true map for your bike invest in a wideband O2 data logger!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You should maybe check to see if you can find a factory pro dyno, they use a 4 gas analyzer which goes by CO readings. If you want a true map for your bike invest in a wideband O2 data logger!
unless you force 100 mph of air into the front of it you will never get a decent map, i do own a piper dyno with brake and 4 gas meter its just not set up yet.
 

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unless you force 100 mph of air into the front of it you will never get a decent map, i do own a piper dyno with brake and 4 gas meter its just not set up yet.
Here is what you need to do. Back in 1992 I had unlimited access to the 1st generation Dynojet Dyno. We took a 1990 ZX11, the first year of the "Ram Air" Kawasakis. At the same time I owned a I&C Controls company and did semiconducter cleanroom certifications. We used a laminer flow meter that could be calibrated to read air flow in cubic feet per minute or MILES PER HOUR. We took my back pack leaf blower, which has a rating of 210 miles per hour. This leaf blower has a trigger so that you can vary the air speed. It took 4 people to simulate the bike driving down the road at speed, one to run the bike on the dyno, one person to read the speed of the motorcycle as it accelerated on the dyno to the person holding the laminer flow meter, between the air intake and the leaf blower who then instructed the operator of the leaf blower to eather speed up or slow down the air coming out of the leaf blower to match the speed the bike was running on the dyno. Granted we did not have any way to measure the air/fuel ratio, and this bike was carbarated not fuel injected, but we did not see any increase in horse power due to the ram air effect untill after 135 mph and then only a 3 to 4 HP difference from the bike running stationary with no air assistance. Many people in the know at the time concluded that the ram air effect was minamal at best and the real benefit of the ram air boxes at that time was the fact that you were getting cooler, denser air to the intack verses heated less dense air from around or behind the hot motor. It would be interesting to have someone try this with a new generation bike with "RAM AIR" and a dyno and equipment to read the air fuel ratio. This was kind of a lets see what happens kind of thing and we always wanted to try it again but could never get everything togeather for a more sceintific try.
 

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If you do the math its approximately 140MPH for ram air to start working, they did a few runs a couple of years ago for Superbike magazine , I think the managed approximately 1 psi increase .
With a scoop pointing directly in the airstream and above the boundary layer we managed 1.4psi increase at Daytona at 177 MPH with a normally aspirated V12 3 litre GTP car , we manged almost 2lbs of pressure with an F1 car at the old Hockenheim circuit , by using winglets on the side of the airscoop to accelerate air around it , that was at 210MPH.

With good fuel management the airbox pressure sensor should accomodate the extra pressure and adjust the mixture accordingly.
 

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Speed Freak
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well good dyno tuners know that the bike will lean out at higher rpms. Generally we make the Co levels 5.4-5 usually best power is around 5 co so w/e we find makes best power make it run richer on the dyno, showing less hp on the dyno but equals out to being just baout perfect for street. I have a data logger with heads up display air fuel ratio meter on my bike and loggin on the dyno and on the street actually shows just about the same thiing......on the dyno I tune my bike for about 12.5-6 and on the street for top end runs it goes to around 12.9-13:1.

but yet again I still thing best tuning will always be done with a data logger and real world situations!

if you ever get a data logger n need help seting up a map let me know, ive done a few peoples over the web. always glad to help!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
agreed to disagree. :badteeth:
i am to believe that all dynos work the same, the main diff is whether you have a brake/retarder on it so you can hold it at certain revs and read the gas meter at various loads... if thats what your doing then why would one be better than the other?
Am i wrong?
 

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Speed Freak
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the quality alone and the tech support has always been better on factorys end. Im just not a fan of dynojet dyno's or "acceleromters"
 

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Hey Garth,
I am looking to buy a dyno soon and I am leaning towards a factory pro. I would like to understand the readings of the 4 & 5 gas analyzers. Do you have any manuals that you can share with me to better understand the analyzer.
 

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Speed Freak
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no real manuals, maybe check out their website but if you call and talk to them they will give you all the insight you need, they are awesome guys over there!!!
 

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well the article of how accurate of a dyno machine they AREN'T and how bad customer service is with them and has always been is just another down fall to dynojets product.

Atleast their power commander stuff holds out, to bad their rev extend only works on select bikes it seems though.

Mine has never worked and I actually just updated the firmware on the PC3 and Ign module. Maybe that will magically do the trick
 

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In 1992, I took my Kawasaki to 4 different Dynojet Dynos all on the same Saturday, riding the bike to each one of them. The last stop was at what is now a GMD Computrack facility in Atlanta owned by Kent Sonjier (the old Cycle Nuts and Bolts dealer) and the actual Greg McDonald was there showing them how the GMD measurement machine worked. GMD himself commented on how my ZX7 squated under acceleration on the dyno due to the swingram pivot not being in the optimal location. Kawasaki came out with an adjustable pivot the next year.

All 4 Dynojets (Model 100, and 150's) all read within 1 hp of each other that day. I think they are pretty consistent based on that experience.

I first went to Peachtree Performance, Marietta Motorsports, Roswell Honda, and then Cycle Nuts and bolts. All 4 dyno's read between 113-114 HP.

JJ
 
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