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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Guys!

Monday at the Streets of Willow on the 07 ZX10R, I was having a pretty good track day- I was really beginning to pick up the pace by my 4th session. The last time I was out @ Streets in December, I dumped it on the 2nd turn of the day on the Q2s, though it was 40 degree weather and the tires were new (un-scrubbed). I chalked it up to cold new tires. By the 4th session, I was gaining confidence in these tires and pushing it.

A few laps in, I was riding through the 'skidpad' before the straight, and leaning it over a little extra since I knew my wife was taking pictures (yes, I got a few good ones!).

But this time, the bike let go and (very gently!!) I went sliding off the thing. No major damage, I was able to dust off and re-join the ride the session after. It was the 'nicest' crash I've ever had!

Anyhow, I'm running it over in my mind- at Buttonwillow running the race slicks that came with the bike, I pushed corners MUCH harder than that- dragging swingarm spools at one point. Those were Pirelli Superbike slicks, SC2 compound, and not running tire warmers. I picked up a cheap set of Dunlop Q2s, and this is the first time I've run them.
Do you think the tires would have made a difference in this case? I'm tempted to put the slicks back on and give it another go (next trackday is at the end of the month).

I'm quite heavy (250+lbs in the nude), so my tires get pushed much harder than normal weight riders- you can see the wear difference between my friends and I. Also, I'm not as flexible and short so I tend to lean the bike more than some of the smaller guys.

here's a video for your enjoyment, recorded on a GoPro HD. Maybe some of you experts can see what I or my machine did wrong:


-Dave
 

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I am no expert but these are my observations-
1. Track seemed bumpy on corner entry. I hope your rebound settings were not too slow. Bumpy track + slow rebound = loss of traction.
2. You seem to go on and off the throttle. I could be wrong, but thats how it seemed on video. On/off throttle + bumpy track = crash. Your suspension was working to cope up with your throttle and when you hit the bumps, it just could not cope up.
3. The pirelli superbike tire is the control tire for world superbike. The Q2 a road tire that can also be used for occasional trackdays. How can you expect the same grip, lean angle, ect from Q2s? The golden rule for tires is - NEVER DOWNGRADE ON TIRES, SPECIALLY AT THE TRACK. Please repeat after me.
Just my thoughts. Stay safe and have fun.
 

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Dunlop Sportsmart are good for track days too, not Q2s.
But even Sportsmart are not as good as pirelli superbike for track.
 

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The golden rule for tires is - NEVER DOWNGRADE ON TIRES, SPECIALLY AT THE TRACK. Please repeat after me.
I'd say: "don't blindly trust your tires".

Downgrading is completely OK and I see nothing wrong with that. Judging by the video I don't think OP was going too fast so Q2's became greasy (or probably the pressures were way off, 4example).

Anyway, abrupt throttle in a mid turn + great lean angle = disaster.
 

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I am no expert but these are my observations-
1. Track seemed bumpy on corner entry. I hope your rebound settings were not too slow. Bumpy track + slow rebound = loss of traction.
2. You seem to go on and off the throttle. I could be wrong, but thats how it seemed on video. On/off throttle + bumpy track = crash. Your suspension was working to cope up with your throttle and when you hit the bumps, it just could not cope up.
3. The pirelli superbike tire is the control tire for world superbike. The Q2 a road tire that can also be used for occasional trackdays. How can you expect the same grip, lean angle, ect from Q2s? The golden rule for tires is - NEVER DOWNGRADE ON TIRES, SPECIALLY AT THE TRACK. Please repeat after me.
Just my thoughts. Stay safe and have fun.
:+1: i'm going to have to agree with him on this. when you go on/off throttle like that, you have to be completely aware of what your suspension is doing. giving the fact that you're a little heavier, keep in mind the load you're putting on the forks when you cut the throttle like that. kieth code say's you want to maintain a 40/60 weight ration in the suspension front to rear. i wouldn't totally blame it on the tires because you really weren't going THAT fast. keep riding, im glad you're bike sustained little damage and that you're ok!

ps- pick up twist of the wrist volume 1 and 2 they are the tracks bible!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks guys! :)

I'm putting the superbike tires back on for my next outing just to compare. I'll dial down the rebound a bit too. The corner freaked me out a bit because of the roughness, probably why you can hear me roll on and off the throttle a bit. It seemed to smooth out just before my tires let go, but I do see a crack in the road just before the slide (see it in the video, didn't notice it at the time).

I just re-sprung the suspension for my weight and it works much better- before that I'd bottom out my forks every time.

What do you guys think of the Sportmax GP-A tires? Are they OK to run without warmers? I keep reading conflicting opinions about warmers online- seems some guys are having good luck running without them, just taking it easy for the first couple laps. That's what I did when I was at Buttonwillow with the SBKs the first two times.

If I get warmers in the future it'll be next winter- when guys are unloading theirs :D

-Dave
 

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i havent ridden q2's, but ive heard fairly decent reviews from friends who have ridden them on track days as far as road tires go. in fact, im riding little talledega on the 14th and am considering putting q2's on my hoops to try them out (at $199 for the set). in this case, i have to say that i dont think that the problem was your tires at all.

and +10000 on twist of the wrist...although i think that twist of the wrist 2 is a much more up to date and pertainent read and i dont recommend 1 to people. also, the twist of the wrist 2 video is a pretty good resource and worth the money (or torrent-used bandwidth)
 

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Just my $.02 here, a little too much unsettling the bike for me....From a combination of the bumps and the on/off throttle.

I would also try and hang off a bit more, I think it defintiely would have helped in that corner so that you wouldn't have to lean the bike over quite as much. It's hard for me to tell from the video but maybe a slightly different line over the bumpy portion, so that once you reach the bumpiness, you're a bit straighter/upright coming out?

Again, just my opinions. Obviously suspension and tire pressure will play a huge role as well. Different tires will need to run at different pressures to get optimum grip.
 

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I am no expert but these are my observations-
1. Track seemed bumpy on corner entry. I hope your rebound settings were not too slow. Bumpy track + slow rebound = loss of traction.
2. You seem to go on and off the throttle. I could be wrong, but thats how it seemed on video. On/off throttle + bumpy track = crash. Your suspension was working to cope up with your throttle and when you hit the bumps, it just could not cope up.
3. The pirelli superbike tire is the control tire for world superbike. The Q2 a road tire that can also be used for occasional trackdays. How can you expect the same grip, lean angle, ect from Q2s? The golden rule for tires is - NEVER DOWNGRADE ON TIRES, SPECIALLY AT THE TRACK. Please repeat after me.
Just my thoughts. Stay safe and have fun.
:thumbsup:
 

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Thanks guys! :)

I'm putting the superbike tires back on for my next outing just to compare. I'll dial down the rebound a bit too. The corner freaked me out a bit because of the roughness, probably why you can hear me roll on and off the throttle a bit. It seemed to smooth out just before my tires let go, but I do see a crack in the road just before the slide (see it in the video, didn't notice it at the time).

I just re-sprung the suspension for my weight and it works much better- before that I'd bottom out my forks every time.

What do you guys think of the Sportmax GP-A tires? Are they OK to run without warmers? I keep reading conflicting opinions about warmers online- seems some guys are having good luck running without them, just taking it easy for the first couple laps. That's what I did when I was at Buttonwillow with the SBKs the first two times.

If I get warmers in the future it'll be next winter- when guys are unloading theirs :D

-Dave
I would suggest to do one thing at a time. Maybe just go back to the superbike tires first, take it easy and see how you go. Then make minor adjustments to your rebound and see what happens.
The GPA211s are excellent tires. But, remember that they have a very stiff carcass. This means that to derive optimum benefit from those tires, your suspension has to be spot on. If you do not have access to professional suspension or experienced suspension tuner, better to stick with a softer carcass tire like the pirellis.
With regards to running without warmers, yes you can if you take it easy for the entire first session and first few laps of every session. But warmers are always recommended.
 
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