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Discussion Starter #1
Really unhappy with the Gen 4 at track day yesterday. It really sucked in lower speed corners with no feel on corner entry. It just feels big and cumbersome. The ride height adjustment did help with holding the line on corner exit but there's just not enough feel to enter slower speed corners with aggression. I'm really hoping its the bridgestone tires their stock 016s. I pulled the Gen 1 from the trailer and went much faster right away. Its probably apples and oranges because the Gen 1 has Race Tech components and is using Q3s. The Gen 1 just feels and is smaller and I really enjoy the way the motor delivers power and of course it has shorter gearing. It gives great feedback on corner entry and exit. The Gen 4 was geared way to tall for the track I could go around almost all the track in second only the straight required a shift to third. My son rode it also and had similar complaints. We put it back in the trailer and finished the day on the Gen 1 that put the smile back on our face. I'm going to try some Q3s for its next outing at the track hope that's what the problem is.
 

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Your gen I sounds like it was set up with nice modifications and fantastic tires.

The gen IV has very tall gears and tires alone can make you faster.

I was faster on my modified gen iii, but I'm just starting to build up my gen IV.

It took Sykes an entire season to figure out tire wear.

Also sounds like a small track if you can run most of it in 2nd.

My guess is that you have more seat time on the gen 1; which is a great bike by the way.
 

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Go down one tooth on the front sprocket. Go up 2 on the rear

Move the fork tubes level with the triple clamps and put an 8 to 9 mm spacer on the top of the shock yoke (to raise back end). and get the sag set and you WILL like it once you get some decent tires.

Speedy
 

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When I switched to the Q3's it was a night and day difference compared to the factory Bridgestones. The bike no doubt needs to be somewhat geared, unless in those slow speed corners you can do them in first gear.
 

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so, because i am that turd in the punchbowl, the gen 4 needs a grand or two before its very good. it needs a flash with a slip on, cuz its got weak midrange and the top end drops off stock, it needs rear shock and linkage because the stock is just rubbish. also, better tires will help huge, Q3's really are a great way to go for a non dedicated track bike
 

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Setup gearing (start -1 front and +2 back) get some decent tires on it, the standard bridgestones are street tires and i like them as my street tires. Don't know if yours is a FP or a limited us spec, mine is a EU FP spec and even mine has a poor grund power, rip of the cat and add a link pipe. Even with the stock can and a link pipe it will feel stronger. I can't imagine the G4 will handle like a bus, mine handles like a bike.
Things i did -2 front, steel brakelines, RCS brembo MC, cat delete pipe and sinds last week the MIVV GP can (until last week i ran the stock can) and for track i use bridgestone or pirelli slicks. My supsension is still stock for the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have done the 8mm shim in the rear that cured the understeer. It for sure needs the shorter gearing. I hesitate to do the gearing because it will be street ridden more than track. They tend to get a bit buzzy with shorter gearing. I have the Leo Vince slip on because of the sound restriction at our track I have to run it with the butt plug in. I will probably get the mid pipe and lose the cat since here in AZ they don't emission test motorcycles any more that should lose a few pounds. I guess I really should do the ECU reflash especially if it will give more midrange grunt. I can't say I was unhappy with the top end power the way it is. It was a missle down the straight but needs more midrange gunt to get off the corners better. I'm really hoping its the Bridgstone tires that are the major problem. I have been riding and doing track days on the Gen 1 for ten years since I bought it new in 04. That and q3 tires i'm sure makes for my comfort level on the Gen 1. I'm sure it comes down to more seat time on the Gen4 given I've had it almost two years and it only has 1100 miles on it. The Gen1 feels like a 600 with a sick motor in it. The Gen4 feels like a big liter bike. Next step q3s and then we will go from there.
 

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I have done the 8mm shim in the rear that cured the understeer. It for sure needs the shorter gearing. I hesitate to do the gearing because it will be street ridden more than track. They tend to get a bit buzzy with shorter gearing. I have the Leo Vince slip on because of the sound restriction at our track I have to run it with the butt plug in. I will probably get the mid pipe and lose the cat since here in AZ they don't emission test motorcycles any more that should lose a few pounds. I guess I really should do the ECU reflash especially if it will give more midrange grunt. I can't say I was unhappy with the top end power the way it is. It was a missle down the straight but needs more midrange gunt to get off the corners better. I'm really hoping its the Bridgstone tires that are the major problem. I have been riding and doing track days on the Gen 1 for ten years since I bought it new in 04. That and q3 tires i'm sure makes for my comfort level on the Gen 1. I'm sure it comes down to more seat time on the Gen4 given I've had it almost two years and it only has 1100 miles on it. The Gen1 feels like a 600 with a sick motor in it. The Gen4 feels like a big liter bike. Next step q3s and then we will go from there.


If you get Don Guhl to flash it he will do away with the factory USA EPA limits. Give you about 600 higher redline. Advance the timing and add fuel to make probably another 18 to20 h/p. you will also need a PCV or Bazaz to remap it so it will not be as lean in certain rpm levels. Do that and you will REALLY like it. BTW the regearing will not be an issue on the street but it will accelerate much better. The ECU even adjusts the speedo because the speed is based on the wheel sensors tied into the traction control. They come from the factory geared away too high in order to meet federal noise standards in the USA. The day I bought mine I actually stalled in in the parking lot because I wasn't used to such high gearing. I thought I took off in second gear LOL. The bike was a dog compared to what it is now with the gearing change and ECU flash. It is WELL worth the money spent. This bike has an additional 20+ H/P in it just waiting to be released. Do those mods and it will scare you at first if you are used to the stock bike. LOL.

Speedy
 

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Do those mods and it will scare you at first if you are used to the stock bike. LOL.

Speedy
Sorry just had to chime in in the Scared bike part :lol:......I don't think Tech will Scare easy owning the Widowmaker unstable untamed for 10yrs.....there's a difference between all out acceleration and down right untamed abruptness and other fun factors..... just saying :biggrin:

Bloo
 

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If you get Don Guhl to flash it he will do away with the factory USA EPA limits. Give you about 600 higher redline. Advance the timing and add fuel to make probably another 18 to20 h/p. you will also need a PCV or Bazaz to remap it so it will not be as lean in certain rpm levels. Do that and you will REALLY like it. BTW the regearing will not be an issue on the street but it will accelerate much better. The ECU even adjusts the speedo because the speed is based on the wheel sensors tied into the traction control. They come from the factory geared away too high in order to meet federal noise standards in the USA. The day I bought mine I actually stalled in in the parking lot because I wasn't used to such high gearing. I thought I took off in second gear LOL. The bike was a dog compared to what it is now with the gearing change and ECU flash. It is WELL worth the money spent. This bike has an additional 20+ H/P in it just waiting to be released. Do those mods and it will scare you at first if you are used to the stock bike. LOL. Speedy
If you don't mind, could you elaborate on this a bit? Hopefully you're not saying something gets messed up if you make sprocket changes. Not sure how a sprocket change could throw off how the bike senses speed BUT I ain't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer either!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Sorry just had to chime in in the Scared bike part :lol:......I don't think Tech will Scare easy owning the Widowmaker unstable untamed for 10yrs.....there's a difference between all out acceleration and down right untamed abruptness and other fun factors..... just saying :biggrin:

Bloo


LOL Bloo. Your so right there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
If you get Don Guhl to flash it he will do away with the factory USA EPA limits. Give you about 600 higher redline. Advance the timing and add fuel to make probably another 18 to20 h/p. you will also need a PCV or Bazaz to remap it so it will not be as lean in certain rpm levels. Do that and you will REALLY like it. BTW the regearing will not be an issue on the street but it will accelerate much better. The ECU even adjusts the speedo because the speed is based on the wheel sensors tied into the traction control. They come from the factory geared away too high in order to meet federal noise standards in the USA. The day I bought mine I actually stalled in in the parking lot because I wasn't used to such high gearing. I thought I took off in second gear LOL. The bike was a dog compared to what it is now with the gearing change and ECU flash. It is WELL worth the money spent. This bike has an additional 20+ H/P in it just waiting to be released. Do those mods and it will scare you at first if you are used to the stock bike. LOL.

Speedy
I had been kind of up in the air about the reflash but it really seems this bike needs that to work better. Especially if it will give more grunt on corner exit. That's very cool the reflash adjusts the speedo so you don't have to add a speedo healer. I like that feature. I knew the bike would not pull to redline at Miller so I adjusted the shift point down to 12.9 it was still a missle down the straight just could not carry as much entry speed as the widowmaker thus making exit speed slower. The Gen 4 right now makes no where near the low and midrange power of the Gen 1. I guess that's what I miss after riding the Gen 1 so long.
 

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If you don't mind, could you elaborate on this a bit? Hopefully you're not saying something gets messed up if you make sprocket changes. Not sure how a sprocket change could throw off how the bike senses speed BUT I ain't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer either!
its the opposite. on any bike without wheel speed sensors the only way to get a true speed estimate is off the engine speed so when you change sprockets on older bikes you also change the speed reading. on a gen 4 or any bike with abs/tc the wheel speed is used to indicate speed which means changing sprockets does not vary the indicated speed.
 

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I had been kind of up in the air about the reflash but it really seems this bike needs that to work better. Especially if it will give more grunt on corner exit. That's very cool the reflash adjusts the speedo so you don't have to add a speedo healer. I like that feature. I knew the bike would not pull to redline at Miller so I adjusted the shift point down to 12.9 it was still a missle down the straight just could carry as much entry speed as the widowmaker thus making exit speed slower. The Gen 4 right now makes now where near the low and midrange power of the Gen 1. I guess that's what I miss after riding the Gen 1 so long.

The reflash is a must for any gen 4 it removes the top end restrictions from 11500 rpm up to redline. It can also raise the rev limiter 500 rpm if requested. Also can give you the ability to adjust the t/c setting on the fly. It also removes the top speed limiter. However it has nothing to do with the speedo and nothing needs to be done with the speedo when gearing changes are done because the speed is read at the rear wheel through the T/C wheel speed sensor.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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SPEEDY is right reflash gulhs plus gearing totally diffrent bike plus dyno tune mine maid a 190hp at the tire and as smooth as butter
 

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Woolich Racing

With woolich and the expertise of many member here you can flash your ecu the way you want on your gen IV, that will give the bike a lots of pep.

SelenaP a member here do a lot of experiment on this.
 

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Did you have the suspension set up for your weight already?
It sounds to me like the tires are your biggest problem right now. The first time I went to Buttonwillow I was running Power Pures with plenty of depth left to the markers. First 3 sessions I just couldn't get comfortable, every corner the front end felt vague and then when I tried to go a little quicker I'd feel it push. I worked with the tire guy to try and tune the pressures, but it didn't improve enough. Finally at lunch I switched both tires out for Superbike PRO slicks and immediately went 5 sec faster, from slow in B group to fast in B group.

Other than that how did you like Buttonwillow?
 

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like they said:

-tyres
-reflash
-graves full (nice mid range)!!!
-tune
- +2 in the back!!!

oh and the rifleman insert!!!
 
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