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Discussion Starter #21
Why can't you raise the rev limiter?
This bike is street/drag swb bike.
I had the rev limiter set at 14200 and I am glad I took the head off for thin hg and cam change.
I found marks in 5 of 8 exhaust valves.
Email Ape with the photos and replied that the valves were floating.
I will never set the rev limit above 14k at least with stock valve springs.
 

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those listed lift checking points, .040 and .050, are a standard for measuring duration, do not affect degreeing or lobe center. degree setup correct will be same lc at either lift measured. impressed, paying attention to detail. degreeing cams practically requires i pull the engine to get a accurate setup, know what ur saying. lot of work to redo especially after being discouraged. if interested, pm me ur shipping info, send u complete set .016 valve spring shims that go under spring bases. adds about 400 rpm to float factor increasing spring pressure without coil bind. .030 too close. every little bit helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
those listed lift checking points, .040 and .050, are a standard for measuring duration, do not affect degreeing or lobe center. degree setup correct will be same lc at either lift measured. impressed, paying attention to detail. degreeing cams practically requires i pull the engine to get a accurate setup, know what ur saying. lot of work to redo especially after being discouraged. if interested, pm me ur shipping info, send u complete set .016 valve spring shims that go under spring bases. adds about 400 rpm to float factor increasing spring pressure without coil bind. .030 too close. every little bit helps.
In the next days I will pull the engine to degree the cams.
In order to put the spring shims I will have to pull the head off, pull the valve seals and put new ones (again) but engine safety comes first.
The 0.16 shims you mentioned will let me run the rev limiter to 14400 or lower?
How much is the safe free distance between the measured height of spring at full cam lift and the fully pressed spring?
 

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if they are metal jacketed seals as stock, u can gentley pull them back off with a pair of needle nose pliers and reinstall. no damage done. . tried shimming stk springs .030, felt coilbind turning the cam sprockets adjusting valves at full lift each cyl. .030 considered safe, can run tighter, i do. hopefully redegree will strengthen and lower powerband to more reasonable rpm limits. ur already damaging valve keeper grooves, like it or not gonna have to shift lower and u shouldnt have to turn it that tight. just picked up a gen 1 zx14 from dyno, made 198/117 ft lb torque on pump gas. power peak at 10400, started hugging that peak at 9600 and hp curve tabletop flat all the way to 11500 with flashed ecu limiter. torque curve peaked at 7800, still at 105 at 10500, dropped like a rock next 1000 rpm down to 90 ft lbs at 11500. when torque goes to hell ur basically thru with hard accleration. need torque to rip thru gears. best to consider both these curves when choosing shift points. this bike wll be its fastest shifted around 10500 where hp is peaked, torque still abundant.sounds/feels fast screaming a engine, most times ur going slower.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
That's exactly what I think.
There is no reason to put extra shims in this head at all.
With the timing you suggested the peak power will be around 13000-13300 so there is no reason to go further 14000.
I usually check my shift points at strip with the time and km gain from 1/8 to 1/4.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Engine is on the stand now.
Today or tomorrow will redegree the cams.
My purpose is to degree it 110/108 as gaz suggested.
I also need your opinion about 110/110 timing.
How will these numbers affect the powerband compaired to 110/108?
 

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Discussion Starter #28
So after a year ,two months and 2 or 3 cam redegrees I decided to finally pull the head of and do the right deck in order to gain some power.
Just to remind you I am at 0.05mm deck and .50mm hg...
Thinking to deck another 0.45 and put a stock 0.65mm hg. (0.25mm deck more or 0.45mm deck from stock)
What's your opinion?
 

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realize that compression gains from a thin hg are more than same amount decked from a head as entire bore is reduced from thin hg, deck only affects combustion chamber which is smaller area affected. loosen that squish with thicker hg will definatley lose power/torque everywhere. always keep squish as tight as possible. milling head more to .015-.020 will make more power/torque thru entire powerband but as mentioned these are very trickey heads to mill perfectley flat to the factory angle across the entire head. last one took me three hours just to set up on milling machine. just saying u can lose more than gained if head is not perfectley milled due to valve seat distortion/valve leakage when head torqued down on engine. valve seal is critical to make strong power. as far as piston to valve, anything over .030 good with these motors, get everything right u dont have to rev hell out of it, power will be there within designed limits.
 

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I do not mill this heads.... Don't know anyone here where I live smart enough to do it.

As my numbers, remember there are levels of knowledge, GAZ is the guru, I'm just a good listener.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I milled the head 0.25mm and I and will use an 0.50mm hg as before.
I trust my machinery shop, he does very precise work on my parts and I believe the head is milled correctly (Gaz ,he also said that it took him 1.5 hour to set it up correctly)
The big question is cam timing now.
My thoughts are to degree my stock cams to 110/110.
Also what are best psi that should read on my gauge after cam degree?
Is it correct to be around 210-220 psi in order to have good mid power and also strong top end?
 

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Just checking this head, some epoxy porting was done also


This is a 2015 head skimmed down too the max 0.8mm you can just make out where the tooling clipped the valve seats, that's the darker streaking on the face. 0.6mm allows for a distortion when torquing down.
 

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Go with gaz #s... those are proven #.



I milled the head 0.25mm and I and will use an 0.50mm hg as before.
I trust my machinery shop, he does very precise work on my parts and I believe the head is milled correctly (Gaz ,he also said that it took him 1.5 hour to set it up correctly)
The big question is cam timing now.
My thoughts are to degree my stock cams to 110/110.
Also what are best psi that should read on my gauge after cam degree?
Is it correct to be around 210-220 psi in order to have good mid power and also strong top end?
 

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on my stk piston big engine street/strip builds i generally see 210-225 lbs cranking compression after cams degreed and engine refired and heat cycled a couple of times. those numbers are a strong indicator of big power and torque after tuning. were talking gen 2 1340 busas and gen 1 1352/gen 2 1441 zx14rs. i commonly deck these heads .020-.025, the busa allows a thin hg for piston to head along with the deck, the 14's require stk head gaskets to avoid piston to head contact. these motors respond best to moderate degree numbers, as in 105-106 zx14 series, 106-107 busa. i dont see that high of a cranking compression on the smaller 1000 engines due to thier current top end hp design. lobe centers, cam durations are higher reducing cranking compression. 190+ is good, 200+ will make strong hp.
 

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If your # are good, and the engine is not making power, you should check all things, had a good friend that we share info.
gen4 with mr12 makes 200hp he has.
one day was making 175 hp, he went crazy, only to find out that one of the coils where bad.
 
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