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Discussion Starter #1
Searched but did not find any specific thread.

So I have a appt for a custom tune.

Bike: 07 10, mods are full arata ti race exh/ kn air filter and pc3. I also have a gipro.

Question: Do I tune on the gipro setting i ride with ie "2" or on "0" or does it not make a difference? Thanks for any input!
 

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Set up your bike however you want to ride it permanently, after he tunes it, changing anything is gonna throw it off a little bit.

It all boils down to air/fuel ratios in my experience.
 

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I thought last I recalled they said you should put it in the Off/Normal mode and then have it tuned. I don't have one so I'm not exactly sure what settings you have but I believe some of the ones who have did it that way then tried changing the modes on gipro. I also think a few pretty much kept it off and just used it as a gear indicator.

(PM bloo as I'm fairly certain he did a lot of "investigating" regarding the use of the TRE)
 

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Set up your bike however you want to ride it permanently, after he tunes it, changing anything is gonna throw it off a little bit.

It all boils down to air/fuel ratios in my experience.
:+1:

I agree with this... TRE will effect your ignition timing and technically timing will affect when the fuel starts to burn which could affect how much of it burns so I would have it tuned with everything how you plan to ride it.
 

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:+1:

I agree with this... TRE will effect your ignition timing and technically timing will affect when the fuel starts to burn which could affect how much of it burns so I would have it tuned with everything how you plan to ride it.
I could be wrong with my above post?!?! I don't think they really have any direct relation to each other but the ATRE would "compliment" the use of a PC?

I thought the ATRE just "fooled/forced" the ECU into using the non-retarded modes and used one map? Didn't think it had any direct effect on the fuel/air ratio which is the main purpose of the PC.

I thought that basically timing was retarded in gears 1-4 to reduce the performance of the bike and the ATRE basically would make it use the one map so you had the full performance instead of the "retarded" one. The ATRE just letting the bike switch back to it's neutral map instead of the forced one so it idles smoother where the TRE wouldn't detect neutral.

I don't think there are any HP gains using the ATRE but better performance/response.

Maybe I've confused myself. :dontknow:
 

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I confirmed with my father who has been a mechanic for over 30 yrs (I am too but he has dealt with this stuff more when older vehicles you actually had to set the timing)

Ignition timing does affect air/fuel. When you have a car with a distributor and carb you ALWAYS set the timing before you do any carb tuning. And if you change the timing after that you have to recheck the carb again.

Advancing the timing makes it leaner, retarding it makes it richer.
 

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I confirmed with my father who has been a mechanic for over 30 yrs (I am too but he has dealt with this stuff more when older vehicles you actually had to set the timing)

Ignition timing does affect air/fuel. When you have a car with a distributor and carb you ALWAYS set the timing before you do any carb tuning. And if you change the timing after that you have to recheck the carb again.

Advancing the timing makes it leaner, retarding it makes it richer.
Interesting.. So if i was to fit my TRE back on id need to go get mine custom mapped again..
More money spent arrrgh!
 

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If you take it to a tuner that knows what they are doing they will do all of this for you according to how you plan on using the bike. Where are you located? Shoot me a PM:thumbsup:
 

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I confirmed with my father who has been a mechanic for over 30 yrs (I am too but he has dealt with this stuff more when older vehicles you actually had to set the timing)

Ignition timing does affect air/fuel. When you have a car with a distributor and carb you ALWAYS set the timing before you do any carb tuning. And if you change the timing after that you have to recheck the carb again.

Advancing the timing makes it leaner, retarding it makes it richer.
I don't think the timing effects the air/fuel ratio but at the point it's burned. The air/fuel ratio is set by the PC. The timing does have an effect on at what point in the process it's actually igniting.

The TRE doesn't change the timing it only forces the ECU to use the best gear map in all gears.
 

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I don't think the timing effects the air/fuel ratio but at the point it's burned. The air/fuel ratio is set by the PC. The timing does have an effect on at what point in the process it's actually igniting.

The TRE doesn't change the timing it only forces the ECU to use the best gear map in all gears.
It is not going to affect the amount of fuel that is mixing with the air, but it will affect how much of it is burned which will affect the reading on the sensors.

If you advance the timing it will start the burn sooner which will then give you a longer burn time which would burn off more fuel - hence getting a leaner reading. Obviously only to a point - if you advance it too much you will get a terrible burn.

Timing Retard Eliminator... it uses a map that has less retard in it. The ECU retards the ignition timing in certain spots in order to smooth out spikes in torque and power in order to make the power band more controllable. So by telling the ECU that you are in neutral all the time it does not retard the timing when it would normally which would equate to a difference in timing for what the bike is normally setup for.
 

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It is not going to affect the amount of fuel that is mixing with the air, but it will affect how much of it is burned which will affect the reading on the sensors.

If you advance the timing it will start the burn sooner which will then give you a longer burn time which would burn off more fuel - hence getting a leaner reading. Obviously only to a point - if you advance it too much you will get a terrible burn.

Timing Retard Eliminator... it uses a map that has less retard in it. The ECU retards the ignition timing in certain spots in order to smooth out spikes in torque and power in order to make the power band more controllable. So by telling the ECU that you are in neutral all the time it does not retard the timing when it would normally which would equate to a difference in timing for what the bike is normally setup for.
I think we are both on the same page. :lol:

When they map the bike don't they do it in one of the higher gears so regardless it wouldn't have the timing retarded and would technically not make a difference in what setting he has the ATRE on?
 

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I think we are both on the same page. :lol:

When they map the bike don't they do it in one of the higher gears so regardless it wouldn't have the timing retarded and would technically not make a difference in what setting he has the ATRE on?
I totally forgot about that, great point:wink:
 

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I think we are both on the same page. :lol:

When they map the bike don't they do it in one of the higher gears so regardless it wouldn't have the timing retarded and would technically not make a difference in what setting he has the ATRE on?
A TRE would have a bigger effect on the lower gears than on the higher gears. There is more retarding done in the lower gears than in the top, which is why the ATRE has an option to use a higher gear map.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the input guys.... I emailed Healtec to see what they would say and here is their answer!

Thank you for your email.

1) Set ATRE in the mode which works best on your bike.

2) When the bike is on dyno, keep ATRE in this mode, do NOT turn it off.

Kind Regards,
/Norbert
healtech-electronics.com


I'll ask if they have a link as to what really happens! Cheers!
 

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Thanks for the input guys.... I emailed Healtec to see what they would say and here is their answer!

Thank you for your email.

1) Set ATRE in the mode which works best on your bike.

2) When the bike is on dyno, keep ATRE in this mode, do NOT turn it off.

Kind Regards,
/Norbert
healtech-electronics.com


I'll ask if they have a link as to what really happens! Cheers!
I just got on here to post the same reply I got from them.:lol: (emailed them earlier this morning) I don't like spreading wrong info so had to get a definite answer.

They said that you can add one on to your bike after a custom tune was done and don't need to remap it so by having it off and tuning then turning it on I don't see the difference?

Will see what he answers.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the input guys.... I emailed Healtec to see what they would say and here is their answer!

Thank you for your email.

1) Set ATRE in the mode which works best on your bike.

2) When the bike is on dyno, keep ATRE in this mode, do NOT turn it off.

Kind Regards,
/Norbert
healtech-electronics.com


I'll ask if they have a link as to what really happens! Cheers!
Here is the response I received!

"Both products do their own things, there's no interference or overlap"

Kind Regards,
/Norbert
 

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timing

i do know short stroke, high compression, light weight crank engines can struggle with advanced timing, if a significant increase as in a higher gear, at idle. crank inertia and reduced rod angle just cant freely push the piston thru the increased cyl pressures generated by the earlier burn before tdc, probably why ivan and gipro offers nuetral map at idle. advance the timing as a engine idles and u quickly reach a point where the engine is starting to labor against itself to run. fortunately this is not a problem as rpm rise and crank inertia, which increases proportionally, come into play and we reap the benefits of advanced timing, the improved throttle response these devices were designed to produce. the mechanic is right, set the map, mode to optimal response, then fine tune a/f, it will as stated adjust to the timing, providing best response and horsepower. btw, response is power, the immediate kind. electronically, im challenged, but i have spent enough hours with a timing light to know the benefits, and obstacles of increased timing lead. todays engines are given to us with a safety factor included in ign. timing maps. there is power to be gained. to take full advantage of gipro, your tunershould make full power pulls in gipro enhanced gears and tune there accordingly.
 

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Yeah I got the reply and they said that it doesn't matter if you have it off and get tuned or have it on the setting you will use. Problem solved. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So... Bike's going in tomoro as long as weather holds up!

Gonna get it tuned w/ Gipro on #2. Mods to the bike are: KN Air Filter/PC3 and Full Arata Race, secondaries are still in!

I ride street 100% right now w/ 2 to 3 aggressive rides a month, gonna get some track time in next year. I'll post results:smile:
 

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So... Bike's going in tomoro as long as weather holds up!

Gonna get it tuned w/ Gipro on #2. Mods to the bike are: KN Air Filter/PC3 and Full Arata Race, secondaries are still in!

I ride street 100% right now w/ 2 to 3 aggressive rides a month, gonna get some track time in next year. I'll post results:smile:
That sounds good man. Keep us posted and good luck. :thumbsup:
 
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