Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Check out the other posts where I commented about removing the AIS or whatever it is called system . You guys are losing free HP . Do not waste your money on the block off plates . Connect the AIS/KLEEN valve to the engine crank case vent port .



http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/84819/index1.html

Vacuum Pumps: In the absence of a dry-sump oil system, using a Moroso or Stef’s vacuum pump custom brackets can be made for your application to introduce 5 to 12 inches of vacuum into the crankcase has been proven to improve ring seal as well as eliminate positive pressure on the undersides of the pistons. We’ve seen vacuum pumps deliver 10-20 hp.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I moved this over from another post .

tberd

you've professed 'free hp' on numerous threads about your vacuum mod. Give me/us the hard data to believe this is 'free hp'! have you done 1 single dyno run before & after the mod?? hell 20min between dyno runs can show a 1-2hp diff so how can you prove your vacuum mod is where the 1-2hp came from and not the diff in ambient temp, humidity etc, etc.

BD

BD , what are you affraid of ? Spending maybe $2 on the hose ? If you don't want basically free HP then stay away from this post . I don't need to back myself up with any dyno runs . Instead of casting doubt on this mod , why don't you get off your couch and spend two bucks and try it out . ''

And while you are at it , why don't you send back those block off plates and get your 30-35 dollars back . There is your FREE $2 , FREE .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Again moved over from another post .

From SP8

"Did you read the other thread BD. That vacuum mod doesn't sound right IMO. Check out my input on that thread.

Linky: http://zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3545"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doesn't sound right because you never heard of it . How much proof do I need to show here before you guys get it ? Maybe you missed this below

from morrisjl2 , and thank you for more info on this

"I hope I don't get jumped on too bad here. I have read everything here about the mod here and on 12r.org.
So what I wanted to say was I have done this mod on my 12r as well as many of my friends on 12r's and busas with no problems, no oil leaks from gaskets, no oil consumption or any type of related matter. I still have my 12, however I am considering doing this to my 10r as well. just my 2 cents
Here is a search I did for all of you to decide for your self.
http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/search.php?mode=results
Hope this helps. After going back and reading these I know I will be doing this ot my 10."

Also from morrisjl2

"Sorry wrong web site let's try it again.
http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/viewto...edc3b21abddf435
http://www.zx-12r.org/Motorcycle_in...20Procedure.htm
http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/viewto...edc3b21abddf435
This is just a few"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
tberd said:
I moved this over from another post .

tberd

you've professed 'free hp' on numerous threads about your vacuum mod. Give me/us the hard data to believe this is 'free hp'! have you done 1 single dyno run before & after the mod?? hell 20min between dyno runs can show a 1-2hp diff so how can you prove your vacuum mod is where the 1-2hp came from and not the diff in ambient temp, humidity etc, etc.

BD

BD , what are you affraid of ? Spending maybe $2 on the hose ? If you don't want basically free HP then stay away from this post . I don't need to back myself up with any dyno runs . Instead of casting doubt on this mod , why don't you get off your couch and spend two bucks and try it out . ''

And while you are at it , why don't you send back those block off plates and get your 30-35 dollars back . There is your FREE $2 , FREE .
Please don't misconstrue my previous post as 'doubting' you and your findings but rather a very straight forward question about your claim that its 'free hp' when the only way to somewhat verify it is to test it to get the answer. If your gonna make the claim then you'd surely should be able to back it up otherwise its basically all print and nothing more.
As for me spending $30-35 for plates! guess what i didn't need to purchase the plates as two 5/8" rubber vacuum caps suffice just fine and yes they cost me $2.

BD
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
where is the hose

from BIKEMIKE

tberd,

Where is the crankcase vent line that you hook up to, can you post a pic or describe it?
I would like to see somebody take a vacuum reading right at the reed valve cover hose where it enters the air box. I'm not ready to reinstall the covers to do it ...yet.
The effects of the valve stems being sucked dry are subtle. If the oil from the top end has a place or passage to drain back down to the crankcase then that area is probably exposed to the crankcase vacuum you have added. It's not about sucking oil out of the crankcase through the exhaust, if a valve or other part uses a whicking action to get lubed and a vacuum is applied and pulls the oil in the opposite direction it could oil starve the valve or other part including cylinder walls and wristpins.

Mike[/QUOTE] The crank case vent hose is 1/2" inside diameter . It attaches to the airbox around your penis area . You will notice the only large hose on the air box that faces the to the rear of the bike . It is in the center of the air box . That hose runs from the air box down to the crank case . Now remove this stock hose . Run a .75 meter 1/2" ID long hose to the crank case port and the red circled picture area on the air valve switch , AIS KLEEN or whatever it is called . Plug the 2 ports on the air box , done deal .
 

Attachments

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
moved from another post

from Tberd

"Also if you are worried about this mod sucking any oil up you will see it come out your exhaust . The oil vapor will go from the crank case , into the valve cover , into the exhaust system and out . From doing this mod personally I have ZERO oil exiting from my exhaust . Oil level stays constant and never uses any .

And for the valve wear , the valves are above of the crank case . The engine valves get lubed from the oil that came from the cam bearings . There is no engine or valve wear issue from this mod at all ."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
tberd

Just because morrisjl2 added his finding for a zx12 does not mean it works for the 10r. Kinda like your exhaust valve mod, it may work for the 10r but perhaps it wouldn't for the 04 R1 or for that matter any other bike with an exhaust valve.

BD
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
from another post

from Tberd

"I have done this mod . I am the person that wrote to streetfighter50 . With my mod there is a suprising amount of resistance while removing the oil cap with the engine running . You can also place your hand around or on the clutch cover and feel the vacuum yourself . Even at idle there is a LOT of vacuum . Just imagine at 13,000RPM .

The PCV valve in a car engine has nothing to do with polution control . It removes the oil blow-by from the crankcase . And it is a PCV valve not a PVC valve . Positive crankcase ventilation and not polyvinyl chloride . http://www.2carpros.com/topics/pcvvalve.htm "
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
from another post

from Tberd

"No problem bikemike . I hear you about some good info from this mod . But the car drag racers and pro engine builders already know about this . You noticed the link I provided was from HotRod right ? This mod is hardly ever mentioned in the motorcycle community .

If you are wondering about the amount of vacuum from this mod , try it out yourself . I have done it to my ZX10R and other bikes . Just costs a dollar or two for the hose . After you have the new hose on , open the oil cap on the clutch cover . Place your hand around that large hole where the oil cap was . Now with the bike running you will feel a LOT of vacuum even at idle . I was amazed from the level of it . I thought there would be none or not much especially at idle . You will see there is some resistance when trying to remove the oil cap , from the vacuum that is . Also the oil stays a lot cleaner from the improved piston ring sealing .

Even if it gives you 1 whole HP , how much did it cost you ? Maybe a buck or two for the hose . I would "guess" a gain of 1-3HP . The more open your exhaust is or free flowing , the more possible vacuum is available . This mod on a stock can might not work as well as done on a slip-on or a full pipe . I have the Devil Racing Shotgun slip-on . I have a lot of vacuum at idle .

to check the vacuum level , all you need is a T placed into the 1/2" hose . Hook your vacuum meter there at the T . Then put a rubber cap on the T . I would love to see the vacuum levels from this , idle to 13,000RPM . "
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
from another post

from Tberd

"Great find on this mod morrisjl2 . That will help a lot of guys that are worried about this basically free mod . I like 2-3HP for maybe a buck . "
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
from another post

from Tberd

"After reading the Kawi service manual I think I/we need to remove the electrical plug that goes to the AIS KLEEN air valve . The best bet would be a simple plastic T inserted between the PAIR valves . That would connect the PAIRS together and the other end would go to the crank case . All 1/2" inside diameter hose or fittings .

Again great find by morrisjl2 . His links have really kick ass pics and a great write up on this mod . I think I am going to the hardware store now and get a T for this mod . Junk that air valve all together . Much simpler install and will clean that area up a lot . "
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
from another post

written by SP8

"Are you sure the power is coming from vacuum? Another mod good for 1 to 3 hp is to just disconnect the crankcase breather hose form the airbox. Hot oily air comes up from the crankcase, and that goes into the cylinders with fresh air robbing power. Sounds like this mod benefits from that also by bypassing that hot oily air from the intake. I plan to plug the crankcase hole in the airbox, and put a filter on the crankcase breather port.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what you have written SP8 , you don't know that there is already a filter inside the air box for the crank case vent hose . Why would you remove the hose from the air box and put ANOTHER filter on it ? Where is the free HP from that ? What is the purpose of it ? And hot oily air ? I will leave that one for BD , LOL .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
from another post

again written by SP8

"Also, I doubt a dyno operator with a sniffer will appreciate this mod. Going by the theory of it all, this will now inject hot oily mist into your exhaust. That can't be good for a oxygen sensor. It will also transfer more heat to your valves. One of the problems of running a lean fuel map is excessive heat burning up your valves prematurely. This mod will transfer more heat to the valves. I doubt the suction valve is designed for the higher temps that will now flow through it also. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ZX10R has NO O2 sensor . Why would you be worrying about this ? And more heat on the valves ? I can't address something that has no part of this mod . There is no more heat on the valves than before as stock .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
from another post

Again written by SP8

"Don't forget fresh air is not cooling the crankcase fumes. That means very hot crank fumes mixing with very very hot exhuast gases from the cylinders. That just don't sound right. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is NO fresh air cooling any crank case fumes . The only opening that the crank case has is from the crank case vent hose . You plug that hose the crank case is sealed . Try sucking on that hose and you will see . I know , keep the jokes down to a minimum guys .

SP8 , please don't comment on anything if you have no idea on what you are talking about . If you have any questions please feel free to ask . That is what this forum is all about . I would prefer it if guys like Big Daddy and yourself would just say hey , I have no idea what you are talking about . Can you please help me out ??

All I am trying to do here is let you guys know about some basically free HP . I also hope that knowbody's feeling are hurt here . I sounded like an ass above . I apologize for that .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Big Daddy said:
tberd

Just because morrisjl2 added his finding for a zx12 does not mean it works for the 10r. Kinda like your exhaust valve mod, it may work for the 10r but perhaps it wouldn't for the 04 R1 or for that matter any other bike with an exhaust valve.

BD
Here we go again BD , more doubts . The ZX10R has an internal combustion engine just like the ZX12 has , just smaller in cc's . This mod works on all gasoline engines . If we had a true vacuum pump it would be even better . I got 33HP from a 383 Chevy circle track motor . That one was in the 720HP range .

Big Daddy , this mod works . What else do you need to hear ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
tberd i take no offense to any of your posts so no problem here. I like many enjoy a good debate/discussion. I fully understand the procedure you've described in a few threads and the theory behind it but to say its free HP without facts isn't good. Does my procedure for removing the AIS/KLEEN have the real potential for internal damage? perhaps, perhaps not! and i can't tell you or anyone else different because i'm not 100% positive.

BD
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Big Daddy said:
Please don't misconstrue my previous post as 'doubting' you and your findings but rather a very straight forward question about your claim that its 'free hp' when the only way to somewhat verify it is to test it to get the answer. If your gonna make the claim then you'd surely should be able to back it up otherwise its basically all print and nothing more.
As for me spending $30-35 for plates! guess what i didn't need to purchase the plates as two 5/8" rubber vacuum caps suffice just fine and yes they cost me $2.

BD
Morrisjl2 already found some great links where guys in the ZX12R crowd have dynoed this mod . Others in his links say this is a repeatable mod .

If this is all print and nothing more then the entire hot rodding community is wrong . You ever see a drag race car ? Did you take notice to the header evac kits ? Or the vacuum pumps they run ? Why would they run those ? They are looking for more HP .

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=452330&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Big Daddy said:
tberd i take no offense to any of your posts so no problem here. I like many enjoy a good debate/discussion. I fully understand the procedure you've described in a few threads and the theory behind it but to say its free HP without facts isn't good. Does my procedure for removing the AIS/KLEEN have the real potential for internal damage? perhaps, perhaps not! and i can't tell you or anyone else different because i'm not 100% positive.

BD
Ok BD , you got me on the free mod part . It will really cost you like $2 for the hose .

I thought morrisjl2 vbmenu_register("postmenu_46934", true); and myself had provided some good facts on this mod . Morrisjl2 provided 3 or 4 links from others who have done this mod and even dynoed it . They all report positive results . I reported a couple links of various info . Again all positive results .

Everyone wants to see improvements from a dyno these days . That is good and all but the Dynojet dyno as we all know is not very accurate or repeatable . The weather station on them is junk . How can you get an accurate reading from reported weather results that are wrong to start from . And who actually calibrated the drum and software and so on .........

BD , what is your real issue with this mod ? Do you need a couple of dollars for the hose ? PM me with your address and I will send you 2 bucks . Just kidding BD . Just trying to help us 10R riders out that's all .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
tberd,

I was thinking it would be easy to get an extra oil filler cap and machine the handle off, drill and tap it for a vacuum gage to check vacuum before and after the mod. I might try that this winter.
Nobody seems ready to jump right in on this mod but dont get discouraged cause I'm really enjoying this.

Mike
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top