ceramic wheel bearings???
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Here's a link to their site, took a quick look and they don't have any listed for the mighty ZX-10R, might give them a call
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/Scripts/default.asp
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/Scripts/default.asp
I wonder how the load capacity and rated life of those bearings compares to the standard steel bearings, and how much capability there is of tolerating shock loads.
Steel bearings don't normally fail catastrophically without giving quite a bit of warning first. I don't know if this is true of ceramic bearings. It sure isn't true of a ceramic dishbowl ...
Steel bearings don't normally fail catastrophically without giving quite a bit of warning first. I don't know if this is true of ceramic bearings. It sure isn't true of a ceramic dishbowl ...
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Yo - Right here! http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=3375486&showprevnext=1
I was one of the first to try these bearings. Dave at World Wide Bearings will tell you that.
30% stronger than steel balls. Used in turbos for years (18,000 RPM)
I was one of the first to try these bearings. Dave at World Wide Bearings will tell you that.
30% stronger than steel balls. Used in turbos for years (18,000 RPM)
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Ok fuggers i've sent on1whl a PM with my experience and what i eventually used.
During my quest for ceramics i did contact Woodcraft and to fit both wheels would cost roughly $350 so after contacting a few different bearing Co's for pricing/info/feedback it seems it was an avg price for 5 bearings ( 2 front & 3 rear) www.bearingworks.com is where i eventually made my purchase of non-contact rubber seal bearings (basically low friction steel bearings) and rest assured they are low friction. Part of my decision to not use ceramics on my street bike was due to shock loads and durability on everyday public roads where the 'potential' for a ceramic bearing failure is real, so i decided to take the safety route and install the aforementioned steel bearings.
GoFaster has raised valid points just like the people i spoke with, i.e. shock loads, rated life were items of my discussions with people in the bizz.
When i return home from a ride the lack of rolling/spinning resistance in either wheel is significant........more importantly significant compared to the OEM units.
BD
During my quest for ceramics i did contact Woodcraft and to fit both wheels would cost roughly $350 so after contacting a few different bearing Co's for pricing/info/feedback it seems it was an avg price for 5 bearings ( 2 front & 3 rear) www.bearingworks.com is where i eventually made my purchase of non-contact rubber seal bearings (basically low friction steel bearings) and rest assured they are low friction. Part of my decision to not use ceramics on my street bike was due to shock loads and durability on everyday public roads where the 'potential' for a ceramic bearing failure is real, so i decided to take the safety route and install the aforementioned steel bearings.
GoFaster has raised valid points just like the people i spoke with, i.e. shock loads, rated life were items of my discussions with people in the bizz.
When i return home from a ride the lack of rolling/spinning resistance in either wheel is significant........more importantly significant compared to the OEM units.
BD
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On a side note each salesman i spoke with stated that had my application been internal, meaning crank, transmission or the like the ceramics would have been the recommended setup, they also stated that high RPM applications are better suited for ceramics as well so seeing as how our wheels are not high RPM i didn't see the need.
BD
BD
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+1 on everything BD said. I ordered and installed the same bearings he has. The difference is significant. The stock bearings when spun on you finger barely rotate at all. The replacments spun a good few rotations. Multiply that resistance times five (2 front, three rear). There's HP to be regained from frictional losses with this mod.
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How did you come up with the proper part number or description to order from them? Maybe they knew, but I'd be surprised that motorcycle apps would be listed. I'd like these, but just don't know what to ask for.Big Daddy said:
Ball bearings 101:
Wheel bearings on motorcycles are standard industrial deep-groove ball bearings. The dimensions are highly standardized. There is a 4-digit number within the part number of the bearing which describes the dimensions of the bearing. Any bearing containing that same standardized 4-digit number will FIT. The rest of the part number has to do with the seal design, tolerance classes, etc. There can be slight differences between manufacturers regarding the seal designs and part numbers but it's not meaningful.
ANY industrial bearing supply shop can get these bearings for you. All you need to tell them is that you are looking for a "6204 <or whatever the 4-digit number is - I don't know what it is on this bike - just look at the bearing you take out> deep-groove ball bearing with non-contact seals on both sides" and they can get you the right thing.
Sometimes you'll find that motorcycle wheel bearings are actually "special". Usually the "special" modification is simply that it only has seals on one side. I always buy bearings that are sealed on both sides ... less risk of trouble if a little dust gets in when changing wheels.
Regarding seal designs, here's part numbers NSK uses. I'll use 6204 as an example of the size number - substitute whatever one you are looking for.
6204 without any suffix = Open bearing without any seals. (Don't use these for wheel bearings. There's nothing keeping lubricant in and dust or water out. These are meant for the insides of gearboxes, etc which have splash lubrication and where dust or water are sealed out by some other means.)
6204ZZ = Non-contact shielded on both sides. Non-contact seals have SOME protection against dust or water entry but won't positively prevent dust or water entry.
6204DD = Contact-type seals on both sides. The rubber actually touches the inner race for better protection against dust or water entry. The disadvantage is slightly more friction.
Now ya know.
Personally, I stick with DD-type seals to ensure longer life in critical applications.
Regarding ceramic bearings, I know they're used in some turbochargers for high-rpm applications. These are not subject to any shock loads, and in most applications, a turbocharger failure is not a safety-critical application. The turbo in my VW diesel uses bronze bushings with continuous oil lubrication, as do most production turbos ...
Wheel bearings on motorcycles are standard industrial deep-groove ball bearings. The dimensions are highly standardized. There is a 4-digit number within the part number of the bearing which describes the dimensions of the bearing. Any bearing containing that same standardized 4-digit number will FIT. The rest of the part number has to do with the seal design, tolerance classes, etc. There can be slight differences between manufacturers regarding the seal designs and part numbers but it's not meaningful.
ANY industrial bearing supply shop can get these bearings for you. All you need to tell them is that you are looking for a "6204 <or whatever the 4-digit number is - I don't know what it is on this bike - just look at the bearing you take out> deep-groove ball bearing with non-contact seals on both sides" and they can get you the right thing.
Sometimes you'll find that motorcycle wheel bearings are actually "special". Usually the "special" modification is simply that it only has seals on one side. I always buy bearings that are sealed on both sides ... less risk of trouble if a little dust gets in when changing wheels.
Regarding seal designs, here's part numbers NSK uses. I'll use 6204 as an example of the size number - substitute whatever one you are looking for.
6204 without any suffix = Open bearing without any seals. (Don't use these for wheel bearings. There's nothing keeping lubricant in and dust or water out. These are meant for the insides of gearboxes, etc which have splash lubrication and where dust or water are sealed out by some other means.)
6204ZZ = Non-contact shielded on both sides. Non-contact seals have SOME protection against dust or water entry but won't positively prevent dust or water entry.
6204DD = Contact-type seals on both sides. The rubber actually touches the inner race for better protection against dust or water entry. The disadvantage is slightly more friction.
Now ya know.
Personally, I stick with DD-type seals to ensure longer life in critical applications.
Regarding ceramic bearings, I know they're used in some turbochargers for high-rpm applications. These are not subject to any shock loads, and in most applications, a turbocharger failure is not a safety-critical application. The turbo in my VW diesel uses bronze bushings with continuous oil lubrication, as do most production turbos ...
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Cool. Informative post GoFaster. Thanks for the education.
ccasion1
ccasion1
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Thanks for the part numbers, BD. Saves me having to tear down the bike just to order the parts. Now I can wait 'til they arrive to take it down.
To get an old bearing out, you have to bang the inner race out from the other side. A big heavy-duty flat screwdriver can work. A round chunk of steel a little smaller than the ID of the bearing (so that it will fit thru the one on the other side) will work if it has good sharp edges. It can be a minor hassle ...
Bearings that have been removed in this manner should never be re-used. The hammering can damage the balls.
To install it, you must push it in using the outer race only - NEVER push on the inner race. I usually find a big socket that has an outside diameter a little smaller than the OD of the bearing, and then tap the bearing in evenly using a hammer. Tap on alternate sides of the bearing to get it to go in straight. When the tapping changes from a dull sound to a sharp ringing, the bearing is seated ...
Bearings that have been removed in this manner should never be re-used. The hammering can damage the balls.
To install it, you must push it in using the outer race only - NEVER push on the inner race. I usually find a big socket that has an outside diameter a little smaller than the OD of the bearing, and then tap the bearing in evenly using a hammer. Tap on alternate sides of the bearing to get it to go in straight. When the tapping changes from a dull sound to a sharp ringing, the bearing is seated ...
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If i may expound on GoFaster's detailed instructions just a bit.GoFaster said:
My tools of choice for removal:
1 12" long center punch with a flat tip
1 2lb hammer
When you begin this you'll notice the inner spacer makes contact with both inner races so it needs to be cocked to one side before you can gain access to the inner race/s so insert the 12" punch down through until it gets close to the opposite end and rest the tip against the inner wall of the spacer and tap on it sideways until the spacer moves to one side enough that the inner race is exposed enough to get the tip of the punch flat against it and begin your caveman technique of bearing removal. :badteeth:
My tools of choice for installation:
1 hydraulic press @ my local friendly dealerhsip (BVH) along with a socket matching or just slightly smaller than the outer race and hammer.
I use the press to handle the majority of the install but the final few millimeters should be done by hand ( hammer & socket ) as you'll have a much better feel as the bearing seats into the wheel and bottoms out.
And another lill tidbit is the rating scale for bearings that i'm sure GoFaster is knowlegable of is called 'ABEC' and it's basically a measurement of the clearance between the ball bearing & inner race and just so everyone knows these particular bearings i've used and given you part #'s for are rated ABEC1 which are at the bottom of the scale, as it goes to ABEC3, ABEC5, ABEC7, ABEC9 etc. Some may say 'well WTF is that' and my only reply would be were talkin fractions of thousandths within the ABEC rating scale so relax and breath you'll be fine in the morning.
BD
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