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I hear if you route a hose from your KLEEN valve and stick it through a hole that you have drilled in the cam cover it will create a vacuum around your cams and boost horsepower by 50% :cool:

And don't disagree unless you have tried it and post your dyno graph, right tberd? :wink:

Sorry, could not resist.
 

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L8-Apex said:
I hear if you route a hose from your KLEEN valve and stick it through a hole that you have drilled in the cam cover it will create a vacuum around your cams and boost horsepower by 50% :cool:
BWAHHAHAH :lol:
 

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Vacuum in the crankcases reduces pumping losses and is used by Nascars and other racing engines. How much it helps not sure but it does help. So how can I get a vacuum into my crankcase? bolt on a vacuum pump? or connect the crankcases vent to the KAIS? Sounds like it would be easier to connect the KAIS than bolt on a Nascar vacuum pump.

It is not magic, but sound race engine preparation. It will help, but 1-2% may be the most, 1-2% on a Nascar may mean serious advantage over another team, free horse power with out added stress on the engine.

When you are racing 1-2% is enough to make this type of system work on any 4 stroke race engines, Yamaha have used it on their 4-stroke race MX bikes over the last 5 years, nothing is new, some ideas are forgotten and brought back as some new whiz bang ideas a few years later.

A before and after power curve is not always the best way to see a difference, some times it is best to track time against a given performance task.

Before it took 5 seconds to accelerate from 50 to 100 mph
After it took 4.5 seconds to do the same.

Peak power did not change but the acceleration did.

Most charts show power against rpm and do not show how this relates to time.
Most charts cannot show if the engine is producing more power and using less gas to produce the same power.

Most dynos a just measuring the easiest and simplest thing to measure, does it have more power?

How do you measure throttle response? How can we easily see increased gas efficiency on a Dynojet? If I improve my gas mileage by 2% over 10,000 miles how much will I save, enough to make me find a way to get this idea to work.

In most engine there is now such things as free power, normally most power increases come with a downside, more wear, more stress on different parts of the engine, burns more gas or runs hotter. If you can reduce the pumping losses then it is almost free power. That is why Kawasaki have in the ZX10R and 05 ZX-6R been designing the engines to reduce the pumping losses.
 

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L8-Apex said:
I hear if you route a hose from your KLEEN valve and stick it through a hole that you have drilled in the cam cover it will create a vacuum around your cams and boost horsepower by 50% :cool:

And don't disagree unless you have tried it and post your dyno graph, right tberd? :wink:

Sorry, could not resist.
Come on guys . This is what makes people find other forums . Now after everyone has left this forum , you will complain because this board it dead . I am getting real tired of all the childish comments here . Please lets all including myself clean it up a little here .

If you have something helpful to the topic or to the fourm , please feel free to add your opinion . A reply like yours L8-Apex is not needed here .
 

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Big Daddy said:
Great!! :eyecrazy:

BD
Big Daddy , in what way did your reply help anyone here ? Can we please bump up the maturity level a bit . See what I mean about your little yellow people and flashing eyes ?

I know I have been a dick in other posts . I apologize for that . Will try not to let it happen again .
 

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tberd said:
Come on guys . This is what makes people find other forums . Now after everyone has left this forum , you will complain because this board it dead . I am getting real tired of all the childish comments here . Please lets all including myself clean it up a little here .

If you have something helpful to the topic or to the fourm , please feel free to add your opinion . A reply like yours L8-Apex is not needed here .
Yet you continue to bash Arkapovic and Ivan every chance you get, all the while ranting about your mods without any proof of them working. I don't call that helpful or constructive, you just lose your credibility, and alienate people. It's probably why your being picked at. You have good ideas, they would go over better with some proof and less bashing of products you don't agree with.

Mike
 

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BIKEMIKE said:
Yet you continue to bash Arkapovic and Ivan every chance you get, all the while ranting about your mods without any proof of them working. I don't call that helpful or constructive, you just lose your credibility, and alienate people. It's probably why your being picked at. You have good ideas, they would go over better with some proof and less bashing of products you don't agree with.

Mike
Like I previously stated above , I will clean up my act . Thanks for your opinion bikemike . I will note again here that at times I was posting like a second grader .
 

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tberd said:
Like I previously stated above , I will clean up my act . Thanks for your opinion bikemike . I will note again here that at times I was posting like a second grader .
I feel the love already.

Thanks,
Mike
 

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BIKEMIKE said:
Yet you continue to bash Arkapovic and Ivan every chance you get, all the while ranting about your mods without any proof of them working. I don't call that helpful or constructive, you just lose your credibility, and alienate people. It's probably why your being picked at. You have good ideas, they would go over better with some proof and less bashing of products you don't agree with.

Mike
This was from another kind fellow above (Ninja) . If I did not , I was trying to post with similar findings as Ninja has . I have crappy writing skills as everyone can see . I think I mentioned information that was close to what Ninja has said . If you possibly missed something Bikemike , please go back and read it again .

below written by Ninja

"Vacuum in the crankcases reduces pumping losses and is used by Nascars and other racing engines. How much it helps not sure but it does help. So how can I get a vacuum into my crankcase? bolt on a vacuum pump? or connect the crankcases vent to the KAIS? Sounds like it would be easier to connect the KAIS than bolt on a Nascar vacuum pump.

It is not magic, but sound race engine preparation. It will help, but 1-2% may be the most, 1-2% on a Nascar may mean serious advantage over another team, free horse power with out added stress on the engine.

When you are racing 1-2% is enough to make this type of system work on any 4 stroke race engines, Yamaha have used it on their 4-stroke race MX bikes over the last 5 years, nothing is new, some ideas are forgotten and brought back as some new whiz bang ideas a few years later.

A before and after power curve is not always the best way to see a difference, some times it is best to track time against a given performance task.

Before it took 5 seconds to accelerate from 50 to 100 mph
After it took 4.5 seconds to do the same.

Peak power did not change but the acceleration did.

Most charts show power against rpm and do not show how this relates to time.
Most charts cannot show if the engine is producing more power and using less gas to produce the same power.

Most dynos a just measuring the easiest and simplest thing to measure, does it have more power?

How do you measure throttle response? How can we easily see increased gas efficiency on a Dynojet? If I improve my gas mileage by 2% over 10,000 miles how much will I save, enough to make me find a way to get this idea to work.

In most engine there is now such things as free power, normally most power increases come with a downside, more wear, more stress on different parts of the engine, burns more gas or runs hotter. If you can reduce the pumping losses then it is almost free power. That is why Kawasaki have in the ZX10R and 05 ZX-6R been designing the engines to reduce the pumping losses."
 

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tberd said:
This was from another kind fellow above (Ninja) . If I did not , I was trying to post with similar findings as Ninja has . I have crappy writing skills as everyone can see . I think I mentioned information that was close to what Ninja has said . If you possibly missed something Bikemike , please go back and read it again .

below written by Ninja

"Vacuum in the crankcases reduces pumping losses and is used by Nascars and other racing engines. How much it helps not sure but it does help. So how can I get a vacuum into my crankcase? bolt on a vacuum pump? or connect the crankcases vent to the KAIS? Sounds like it would be easier to connect the KAIS than bolt on a Nascar vacuum pump.

It is not magic, but sound race engine preparation. It will help, but 1-2% may be the most, 1-2% on a Nascar may mean serious advantage over another team, free horse power with out added stress on the engine.

When you are racing 1-2% is enough to make this type of system work on any 4 stroke race engines, Yamaha have used it on their 4-stroke race MX bikes over the last 5 years, nothing is new, some ideas are forgotten and brought back as some new whiz bang ideas a few years later.

A before and after power curve is not always the best way to see a difference, some times it is best to track time against a given performance task.

Before it took 5 seconds to accelerate from 50 to 100 mph
After it took 4.5 seconds to do the same.

Peak power did not change but the acceleration did.

Most charts show power against rpm and do not show how this relates to time.
Most charts cannot show if the engine is producing more power and using less gas to produce the same power.

Most dynos a just measuring the easiest and simplest thing to measure, does it have more power?

How do you measure throttle response? How can we easily see increased gas efficiency on a Dynojet? If I improve my gas mileage by 2% over 10,000 miles how much will I save, enough to make me find a way to get this idea to work.

In most engine there is now such things as free power, normally most power increases come with a downside, more wear, more stress on different parts of the engine, burns more gas or runs hotter. If you can reduce the pumping losses then it is almost free power. That is why Kawasaki have in the ZX10R and 05 ZX-6R been designing the engines to reduce the pumping losses."
Now that you bring it up.
I did read it and am not installing the hose yet.
I do agree that it is probably better to measure acceleration than to dyno but I think the dragstrip would be better than a 50 to 100 MPH timed run. I don't see how he did his timing.
Furthermore, I don't see anywhere in the post that he actually did "your" mod on a ZX10R.
Again we are glossing over the fact that there could be a downside to this mod that only long term use can show, such as pulling oil from cylinder walls, bearings and valves. Didn't we have a couple of engine tuners check in and say not to bother with this mod.
I'm not and never did say this won't work, I might try it myself. I'm just not seeing anything to convince me from Ninja's post.
tberd, can you show me the proof that it works and does it safely?


Mike
 

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BIKEMIKE said:
Now that you bring it up.
I did read it and am not installing the hose yet.
I do agree that it is probably better to measure acceleration than to dyno but I think the dragstrip would be better than a 50 to 100 MPH timed run. I don't see how he did his timing.
Furthermore, I don't see anywhere in the post that he actually did "your" mod on a ZX10R.
Again we are glossing over the fact that there could be a downside to this mod that only long term use can show, such as pulling oil from cylinder walls, bearings and valves. Didn't we have a couple of engine tuners check in and say not to bother with this mod.
I'm not and never did say this won't work, I might try it myself. I'm just not seeing anything to convince me from Ninja's post.
tberd, can you show me the proof that it works and does it safely?


Mike
Just try the mod yourself Bikemike . A $2.00 , 3 foot hose and a .79 cent 1/2" plastic T . I get better throttle response at all RPM's , mileage and better butt dyno feel . This mod uses zero oil and the engine temp stays constant . If you don't want those improvements , revert back to stock . Just $3 dollars and a few minutes of your time .
 

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BIKEMIKE said:
Now that you bring it up.
I did read it and am not installing the hose yet.
I do agree that it is probably better to measure acceleration than to dyno but I think the dragstrip would be better than a 50 to 100 MPH timed run. I don't see how he did his timing.
Furthermore, I don't see anywhere in the post that he actually did "your" mod on a ZX10R.
Again we are glossing over the fact that there could be a downside to this mod that only long term use can show, such as pulling oil from cylinder walls, bearings and valves. Didn't we have a couple of engine tuners check in and say not to bother with this mod.
I'm not and never did say this won't work, I might try it myself. I'm just not seeing anything to convince me from Ninja's post.
tberd, can you show me the proof that it works and does it safely?


Mike
This mod will not pull any oil from any cylinder walls or valves . There is NOT ENOUGH VACUUM FROM THIS TO DO THAT . This mod is not a 75HP Diesel shop vac . Please fellas , I have written several times before about the level of this modded vacuum . I have no concrete data other than placing my hand over the oil cap . No my arm didn't get sucked inside the motor .

Again if you have a belt driven MECHANICAL pump , you possibly could get 15 inches of mercury inside the crank case . There is NO BELT DRIVEN MECHANICAL PUMP ON THE ZX10R . We would get lucky with 5 inches of mercury from this mod . That is knowhere near enough vacuum to do ANY HARM .

The PCV valve on most normal cars pulls around 15-20 inches of vacuum . That is direct intake manifold vacuum . The PCV valve is DIRECTLY ATTACHED TO THE VALVE COVER . THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE CRANK CASE . On a drag car , you are lucky to pull any manifold vacuum at idle . Intake manifold vacuum is effected by cam overlap and cam duration . Longer cam overlap/duration (ZX10R and a drag car) will draw less vacuum . So go out to your soccer mom family SUV and pull the PCV while the engine is running . Now feel that level of vacuum , around 15-20 inches of mercury . Now if the crank case on the 10R was at that level , we would have a problem , IT IS NOT .

The above is just some more repeated info on this topic . No harm directed at anyone . Please read it and put simple logic to work .
 

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tberd said:
Just try the mod yourself Bikemike . A $2.00 , 3 foot hose and a .79 cent 1/2" plastic T . I get better throttle response at all RPM's , mileage and better butt dyno feel . This mod uses zero oil and the engine temp stays constant . If you don't want those improvements , revert back to stock . Just $3 dollars and a few minutes of your time .
When I get bored over the winter I'll probably play around with this.

Mike
 
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