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A funny thing happened to me when I was moving my bike to its new home!I took it for a ride on the HWY to blast out some cobwebs and it started braking down as soon as it was over 9000rpm!I didn't turn the traction control to off and power mode to full as I did before as soon as I jumped on and started it and can't remember what settings it was on!hopefully this could be my problem and I just remembered I can check by simply seeing what setting it goes back too when the key is turned off and on!When I had the tank off recently I made sure the fuel line was in the correct position and hopefully it's not a crimped line!time will tell as this has never happened before but I have never forgot to change those settings!when your under the pump with things going on around you mistakes happen!the moral of this story is "take your time"
 

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Discussion Starter #242
I finally mustered up some energy to look at the bike just a tiny bit. It's been sitting since I last rode it and never even pulled the logs.

Looking at the log from when I had issues it looks like it either hit the limiter or got close to it and then for some reason the bike shifted from 4th to 3rd. I could've sworn it felt like the rear tire started sliding after I hit the limiter but wasn't sure how or why that would've happened. Now it makes sense it probably was sliding around.



Wonder if being on the limiter like that would've maybe moved the cam gears. I was watching a video brock did about how he lock tight on his kickstand bolt and he hit with brake cleaner and then hit it with compressed air. When I put lock tight on the cam gear bolts I just used a pick to pick out any old lock tight and used a rag to get as much oil off the bolt and inside the cam gear as possible. Maybe I should've been a little more diligent on getting oil off but I did the same process last time and had no issues.


I also took off each side cover and was not able to spin the motor over by hand. Driving the same road the other day I rode it about 1 mile down the highway until the exit where it died and log looked ok. Then after it died and I coasted to a side road I did have a log for about 3 seconds where I started it but it sounded bad so I turned it back off. Looks like it stopped pretty close to TDC for 2/3. I'm going to try digging into it a bit tomorrow and see how far apart I can get it and see how bad the damage is. Oil looked clean through the sight glass and smelled pretty normal after taking off the side covers. Coolant still looked very blue in the overflow.



I was talking with a guy I rode with a few times who has a gen 4 who was looking for an engine and he said the only thing wrong with his is he thinks the timing guides are bad as he tried to manually put more tension on the stock tensioner and pushed it in too far. Said he ran it for 15 minutes then it's been parked since. He said he'd take $1k for it. Depending what I find with my motor I might see if I can talk him into me pulling his motor for him and maybe putting in a new one for him if he'd take less money. I'd only buy it if I could do a compression and leak down test on it to make sure he didn't screw anything else up.
 

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If you get another Gen 4 motor I'd leave it alone internally. These motors are built well and don't need much to go fast as I'm sure you know.. Gen one, 2,3 could use motor work but Gen 4 doesn't really need it, or just pop a used Oem head on yours and you should be back in business
 

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Discussion Starter #244
Well I finally got done with making some furniture for our room so I ripped out the motor quick and started taking things apart. Pulling this motor goes pretty quick now that I've done it a few times :badteeth:



I was thinking that the cam gears moved and the valves kissed the pistons when the bike downshifted from 4th to 3rd once I hit the limiter in 4th since I couldn't turn the motor over by hand, but the cam gears didn't look like they moved.

But one piston did look a little higher than the rest...


So I pulled the pan quick last night and saw this. When I drained the oil I saw a little metallic but nothing like I've seen from working in an old performance shop when cars spun bearings and the whole oil came out glittery



My only thought I can think of is that the oil filter wasn't tight when I pulled it off last night and this piece was loose which caused me to lose oil pressure. The local road racing club here no longer lets K&N filters as they have had issues of the filters backing out and oiling down the track. I read somewhere that the Hi-Flow filters (what was on the bike) are the same as K&N but a bit cheaper. Maybe when it was banging of the limiter for a little bit it caused the oil filter to back off slight? I don't know as I know it was tight when I put it together :confused:

When I get it going again, should I put lock tight on this piece as well as this was loose as well which maybe aided in the loose oil filter?



I'm going to look through the service manual today if I get some time and see how complex/complicated it is to split the cases to pull the crank/pistons and see how bad the crank is. Maybe it's still usable and I can get back up and running relatively cheap. Otherwise I might start looking for short blocks/motors for sale.

I didn't see any valve marks on the pistons so thats good news that the head should be good after all the work Jim has put into it. Is there a way I can check at home thats its sealing? My buddy said I should put the pistons back in and put some gas in the combustion chamber and see if it leaks. Good idea or is there a better way? Should I take it to a machine shop?
 

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#2 rod bearing, see how carbon knocked off on int piston squish pad, ex squish pad probabley worse, bet u got a print of that dot on the head. that's bearing material in pan, crank gone. dont see from pics any head/valve damage. stand head int port up, pour gas to cover int valve head, look for leaking/seepage around valve into combustion chamber. do same ex port to ck valves. those size chunks bearing material usually indicate stretched rod bolts, quickley hammers rod bearing out. think backshift problem stretched rod bolts more than oiling issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #246
#2 rod bearing, see how carbon knocked off on int piston squish pad, ex squish pad probabley worse, bet u got a print of that dot on the head. that's bearing material in pan, crank gone. dont see from pics any head/valve damage. stand head int port up, pour gas to cover int valve head, look for leaking/seepage around valve into combustion chamber. do same ex port to ck valves. those size chunks bearing material usually indicate stretched rod bolts, quickley hammers rod bearing out. think backshift problem stretched rod bolts more than oiling issue.
Thank you Jim for the info as always! I knew it was a bearing issues but used to usually really glitterly oil and not big chunks like that, but what you said does make sense to me.

I'll try testing the head probably this weekend. I had a local stock motor lined up but he sold the whole bike now I'm seeing if I can get it from the new owner cheap if I pull the motor and help him part the bike out lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #247
Another update. I ended up buying that motor from the local guy who said he pushed the cam chain tensioner by hand and only ran it for around 10 minutes and then parked it and never rode it again. Figured I'd take a chance on it as I really just wanted to short block to put my head on it and had my old chain/guides to throw on it.

Got the motor pulled out pretty quick and painless. Working on a different bike makes me realize how anal I am and how clean my bike really is lol. With the ceramic wheel bearings, nice clean chain and nice clean single front rotor my bike rolled so much easier around the garage than the other bike too.


Started taking the motor apart and these were the chain guides. Timing chain was pretty rough too from I'd guess all the heat and plastic in it. Cam and head also had some grooves in them I think I could feel with my finger nail, guessing from so much tension on the chain?


Still thought, whatever I just need the bottom end to throw my stuff on it. Spent a while getting the carbon build up off the pistons and getting the deck all cleaned up ready to put the head on. Then when going to swap chains I saw this :crying:


Looked like a bearing was half out of the block. Guessing maybe there was so much tension by pushing on the timing chain tensioner that it slightly pulled up on the crank. I don't know, either way I was pretty bummed.

I started tearing down the blocks but I couldn't get the alternator rotor off and I didn't feel like spending the money on the tool as they aren't super cheap and I wasn't sure I'd have a good crank from either motor at this point. Anybody have a good way to get the alternator rotor off without the special tool?


With our second kiddo on the way (baby girl due in January) I thought if I don't get the bike together soon the bike will probably sit for a long long time so I started searching for another motor. I found one on fb from a guy that was parting out his zx10 to focus on his h2. Motor had mild port job done on it, APE balance shaft delete in it, robinson low 1st gear, ceramic trans bearings, .50mm head gasket, race intake cam that he said a local engine builder helped him degree and checked piston to valve clearances. He said he sent it to APE to have their springs and titanium retainers put in and make sure they were the correct length as well as the head decked just a little to make sure it was flat. The price he was asking seemed pretty fair so I drove 6 hours one way to pick it up on monday.

I was cleaning the DME oil pan from my old motor to put it on the new motor. Took everything apart to make sure no bearing material was anywhere. Really slick oil pan since all of is removable so you can clean everything. Glad I took it apart as I found a bunch of bearing material behind the oil screen pickup that you couldn't see


My little man was helping me push the bikes around the garage and I had to throw him in there for a quick picture :crackup: When we pushed the zx10 he saw the pitbike hiding behind it and we had to ride the pitbike around the yard a bit lol. I think he's going to be a little biker:biggrin:


I got the new motor in the bike so now so hopefully get it up and running soon.
 

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any parts transferred over to the new engine must be cleaned thourghley to remove any metal, if using stk oil cooler from original build, that thing must be really cleaned, metal accumulates there. all oil lines, anything in the lubrication system including oil passages in the head. hate it this happened. three gsxr 1000 engines here now with spun bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter #249
Well I got the bike running last year but with weather and family things I just wasn't able to make it out to the track last year. But got it running pretty decent on 93 pump gas. I think you can kind of hear a bit of the cam maybe at about the 1:10 mark once the engine warms up and the idle drops.


Then with the whole covid 19 thing the tracks were closed so I decided to say screw it, go back to swb to just street ride it a bit more this summer maybe and have a bit of fun. Then come fall I'll throw the arm back on it and hopefully get to the track a few times.



Plan is to try and get on the dyno relatively soon and see what type of afr it likes on c85 and what kind of timing it likes. Then try my hand at the whole tuning per cylinder things out on the street to really dial it in.

Also picked up some dymag carbon fiber wheels from a local guy who never used them for a decent deal. It's weird to see full sized tires and the stock swingarm back on the bike but I'm digging the wheels so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #250
Started street tuning it on c85 and bike was feeling pretty healthy. Tried a 2nd gear pull and it was pretty useless swb. This is with a stock rear sprocket and -1 in the front. Thinking I'll try strapping the front a bit to limit front suspension movement and see if it can keep it down in 2nd. Otherwise I have a stock front sprocket I can throw on as well.


I was able to get it on the dyno today and it did pretty good. First pull it made 190 on the street tune which still needed a little work. Got the tune dialed in a bit more and ended up making 197hp and 81 tq. I was trying to mess with timing and the afr and before I could do too much his computer took a dump for the dyno and cut the day a bit short. I don't have the 197 pull but it looked pretty much just the same. Seems like a decent power curve and really holds power all the way to 14k.



 

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Discussion Starter #254
The afr was dancing around 12.8-13.0. Seems like with the woolich on the dyno I'd target say 13.0 and it'd hit around 13 to 13.2.

Woolich is awesome but I swear anytime I want to do anything with a time constraint my computer and the logbox never want to communicate at first. Was more in the 13.0 to 13.2 range and it made like 195/196. Tried 36 degrees of timing up top and it didn't pick up any so kept it at 35 for e85. Probably drop timing back to 34, maybe 33 on pump just to be sure it's safe.

Might try doing a track day this summer depending on how the world looks and heat, really don't like sitting around in the hot at the track lol. Definitley want to get out this fall and hopefully be mid 180s in boxers and see what it can do with a rusty rider
 

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Discussion Starter #256
Think it would lose much power up top with the baffle back in?

I'd have to get the baffle modified to make it shorter if I wanted to run it as with the Brock's stuff not having a bung I had one welded in and it is in the way of the baffle.
 

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bungs more effective placed up pipe in the 2 into one collector to be farther from reversion. my experience u wont lose any power baffle installed, better torque # which is what acclerates u,
 
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