Kawasaki ZX-10R Forum banner

21 - 40 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Im 6ft 270lbs and after a couple hard brakes from high speed the oem system with HH pads just couldn't handle it and would fade. After installing the Nissin's I had zero fade and a MUCH better feel/response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
552 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Im 6ft 270lbs and after a couple hard brakes from high speed the oem system with HH pads just couldn't handle it and would fade. After installing the Nissin's I had zero fade and a MUCH better feel/response.
I'm only 170lbs fully geared.Whenever I have to lay heavy on the breaks, it seems like I can feel them bending or warping.. I can't really explain it but it's an uneasy feeling, even with new pads. I recently picked up some Nissin calipers and I'll look to install them sometime soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
You haven't installed those yet??!!! Only kidding. When you do install, it is very important to bleed the lines and MC completely. The stock MC is OK if you get it bled correctly. Another tip - don't use the stock rubber brake lines, period. That's just wasting your time. If you feel a pulsing or jerky-grabbing while steady braking then you have a bent or worn out rotor.
For excellent brakes:
ZX6R radial master cylinder
CBR1000 calipers with 5mm spacers
Stainless steel braided lines
HH pads
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Alright, well before my zx10r, I had a 2006 r6 and the front brakes were superb. I really miss the stopping power.

I've read that this isn't too uncommon and people do many types of conversions but it wasn't much detail on the threads.

I've looked up some parts such as this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-11-KAWASAKI-NINJA-ZX14-ZX14R-RIGHT-FRONT-BRAKE-CALIPER-with-PADS-OEM-STOCK-/251677418050?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a9924a242&vxp=mtr

but I'm unsure of what all else is included in changing the front brake and what other parts will I need so if someone could tell me the possible conversions and parts necessary for better breaking, that'd be great:eek:ccasion1

I agree to every member who mentioned the Original front brake are good or excellent.
The original FRONT brake system on first gen ZX-10R is flawless in my opinion for a bike that is prouduce to travel in public streets and roads. I have raced with few vehicles and made them fail quickly. I can make the original rear brake on first gen failed in about just 1 minute. I raced once hard with another crazy but experienced rider with a sooped up bike and my front brake caught fire but they did not fail. They performed perfect and i just believe i have some smokes from the engine. As soon as i stopped at the red light (and i could see the guy killing himself to get to me in my mirrors) i noticed wire burning smell and the flame hit under my body. I pulled over from line 1 digits (between line 1 and 2) crossed over traffic and the guy i raced and won (oh yeah) and pull the side, put the bike on kick stand, took my gloves off and my cell phone to prepare to call 911, and started fanning the engine. Then it caught my attention that the flames are coming from my front brakes pads and not my engine (!!!!!). Their flame was not like the fire on the match or lighter; Their flame was like a "ground flame" in jongles. I never had my brake caught actual flame and to me it was not exactly amazing but quite experienced (My Lovely bike; I love my BIKE!).

If you are Not experiencing an absolute flawless braking do these steps:
1. Take a look at reservoir and if you do not see a clear fluid or see clear fluid but you see some dust/staff at the bottom of your reservoir, flush the system. For that you do not need to buy any thing, just get a container about 1 liter (I/4 gallon), open the bolt hose that is connected to brake calipers, and let the brake fluid drain in the container. As soon as there is no fluid in the reservoir any more, wipe the reservoir with a clean rag.

2. Then uninstall both calipers (you still have some old brake fluid inside them that you need to let them drain as well).

3. Then on a wide clean table, uninstall the the bleeding bolt and brake pads and put them on the side.

4. Then Remove the brake pad springs (sides and under) on each caliper and check their condition (it is common that they might break or the side springs get lost during brake pad exchange. If that is the case, new springs need to be provided. ONLY buy those springs from Kawasaki Dealer.

5. Then remove the piston and check the rubber sealing condition. If the rubber sealing is broken or has crack, it needs exchange with a new one. ONLY buy that rubber sealing from Kawasaki Dealer.

6. The Piston itself does not go wrong.

7. After you did all this and fix the problem parts or inspect parts and they were ok, clean the brake caliper with a clean rag and install calipers parts back.

NOTE: Do not use air compressor or air at any source to clean any brake parts because the smell and material are poisonous and bad for your longs, skin, and eyes. Brake fluid by itself casue blindness.

8. Clean the front brake assembely on the bike and install the brake calipers and their hoses.

9. Put Brand new qualified DOT 4 on the reservoir and perform the bleeding procedure.

10. Adjust your brake lever as you can apply all four finger onto the brake lever and pull it with your maximum grip and put your four fingers back at the handle bar gripped at least amount of time (Very important).

11. Test drive the bike and the brake in a safe area.

12. You should have absolutely flawless FRONT brakes.

13. There is no 13.

14. Respects Shervin Asemani

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
I agree to every member who mentioned the Original front brake are good.
The original FRONT brake system on first gen ZX-10R is flawless. I have race with few vehicle and make them fail quickly. I can make the original rear brake on first gen fail in about just 1 minutes. I raced once hard with another crazy but experience and sooped up bike and my front brake caught fire but they did not fail. They really caught fire and I had to pull over and check the engine and saw oooh see my front brake are smoking not my engine (!!!!!).

:eyecrazy: :2bitchslap:


BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
I don't think he got lucky, I love to seat hard on the brakes as well, I have replace the rotors and the master cylinder but stayed with the OEM calipers. never had any issue of losing braking power or anything that comes even close to that. I did however felt it when I was still with the OEM master cylinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there.

:headshake: luck involved as his brakes are inadequate just as the rest when heavily used. These stories and so-called servicing fixes were addressed 11 years ago, shervin read up.


merry christmas
BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I don't think he got lucky, I love to seat hard on the brakes as well, I have replace the rotors and the master cylinder but stayed with the OEM calipers. never had any issue of losing braking power or anything that comes even close to that. I did however felt it when I was still with the OEM master cylinder.
This has been debated many many times over and still won't go away. Those who changed master say its the master, those who changed calipers say it was calipers, those that changed the lines say its the lines, those that changed it all say its everything....

The stock brakes will stop the bike. Is there room for improvement? Of course, there always is. :wink:

I went with ZX6 radial master and braided lines at 15,000 miles and it improved them for sure. After 55,000+ miles on stock pads, I went to CBR1000 monobloc Tokicos and noticed another increase in stopping ability and pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
I believe the reason that after 2 laps your levers reached the handle is cheap brake pads.
Additional reason would be an unlevel disc (if you uninstall the disc and place it on a plane, no light should pass under it.

If your brake were that hard that you could n't pull the lever after the bike got cold, I believe the problem is actually 3 or at least 2 of these:
1) your brake pads side springs (pins) are not missing but they are broken and do not allow the brake pads come back properly.
2) your brake pads mounting springs are deshaped or broken and do not allow the pads to move back

3) (it might or it might not) Your rubber sealing has been damaged and some of its damaged parts are now in the space behind the pads and prevent the pads of moving back compeletly.

I believe your problem was solved after you changed to Nissin and Brembo discs as well as other members change their calipers and the problem was solved.
What I believe is the problem here is the fact, that the OEM parts that you guys changed had cheap pad, broken parts in the brake calipers, and the system was not bleeded just like "Johns04ZX10R" mentioned.



You guys are lovely. I knew i forgot something. I just didn't know what. I forgot several aspects that without them you won't get perfect flawless front brake on you OEM brakes. Those 2 aspects that i forgot to mention are:

1) Brake pads themselves

2) Brake rotors
And
3) Brake lever

Do not install the basic brake pads on your calipers. First of all not only they don't last long but most importantly, most of the braking force goes into melting those cheap pads instead of stopping the bike. Go with the med or advanced version which has seramic and other metallic and pads from tougher materials. They provide great braking and they last longer and provide less amount of pollution every time you brake (see friend of environment here :) ).

Most speed vehicles have a protective layer on the rotor to protect the surface of the rotor and provide more firction that with a burn out pads and having the ribbits of the pads rubbing at the rotor, those layer would get damaged. If you are planning for a heavy speed race you need that layer unharmed on your brake rotors. For regular street use, just service your brake system and you do not need that layer.
One very important flaw in rotors, is the fact that they lose their shape or they are not level at first to begin with like ALL brake rotors from our lovely producers in China. having an uneven rotor mess up your whole race experience, they create heat, they rub your brake pads and can damage brake system parts.
Many times in races they brake rotors on fourmual 1 cars turns red not becasue of the driver braking too much but becasue the brake rotor lost its leveled condition and is engaged at all times.

A leveled brake rotor is a rotor that if you place that rotor on a plane you should see all the parts of the rotor sits on that flat plane.

Now, for the brake lever, You wont believe my statement until you actually experience it yourself. If your brake lever is a cheap brake lever -might look good or not- it does not provide the true power of your brakes. Buy an OEM brake lever for 2005 or 06/07 from Kawasaki Dealership and install them and adjust them with a tight grip (1) and you understand what i am talking about.
Note: Do not buy OEM brake lever for gen 1 or gen 2 on Amazon or online because they look almost the same as the Actual OEM but their difference to OEM is sky to ground. ONLY and ONLY buy your brake lever from Kawasaki Dealer.
I had installed 06/07 and 2005 brake OEM on my bike and they are both excellent.

Someone mentioned on cold weather, they experience tough braking on the brake lever...
Well, i believe that you have a problem in your brake system or you just think this is April and trying to joke with me. I have ridden in under degrees celicious (the temperature that regular water freezes) and brake lever is just fine. The temperatures under 30 degress celcius are so cold that public regulation encourage people to stay at home not because your brake fluid freezes but because our body freezes.

Your brake fluid does not freezes or -even thicken so hard- at our regular cold riding temperature. They get thicken very very slightly.

Now, to all riders:
Your healthy brake lever tension (even at the toughest grip adjustment (1), is smooth enough that if you have the bike parked and attempted to pull the brake with your pinky finger (smallest finger) you can with effort. I don't have crazy bulky fingers but still can with some might effort to pull the front brake all the way in with my pinky finger. I have do it easily with all my other fingers without might effort (with DOT 4 and with Adjustment (1)). So if your brake levers are hard to pull there is a problem somewhere.

The improvement area:
The rear brake on first gen is very weak and emprovments in my opinion is necesseriy if you are planning to race. I have seen stunt riders add another caliper and join that with the orignial caliper for better stopping. In my opinion if you are plannign a race (speed race) it is better to provide additional cylinder and reservoir within the additinal caliper and not just the cliper joined with the OEM.

For the frount if you are planning a heavy race like a Moto GP, i do recommend 2 different seprate brakes on front for each caliper (2 reservoirs as well). The bigger rotor with more intelligent strengened material, bigger brake lines and tougher pads, are all recommended.
I believe in a heavy race like a Moto GP the Original brakes on first gen will fail due to pressure and temperature.


* Every aspects in this post and other posts that i mentioned is based on my knowledge and experience that i actually performed, investigated, and achieved.
I did not copy any other post.
I did not even support someone's idea unless i actually investigated or tested that on my own and reach the same answer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
You guys are lovely. I knew i forgot something. I just didn't know what. I forgot several aspects that you won't ever get flawless front Gen 1 or 2 OEM brakes. Those 2 aspects that i forgot to mention are:
I watch 'the big bang theory' and I stay @ holiday inn resorts when ever possible

:clap::goodpost:the killer part for you shervin is we help those in need.:wink2:


BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
Well i must say i have never heard anyone ever mention the standard gen 1 brakes being anything other than utter garbage that looked pretty at the time.
If you think they are good then your not breaking hard enough lol.
Its common knowledge that they were the gen 1 weak point.
I took a demonstrator out for a test ride for 2 hours years ago and after hour and half the discs were purple and it had warped them so bad i could barely use them to get back! That said in pretty heavy on brakes.
I tried many combinations including r6 calipers and honda master cylinder.
I ended up with gen 3 modified calipers and discs. Race pads. Braided lines. Dot 5.1 but even then they would fade on track after a session on the fast group.
My prediction is the discs are not made from the same grade of steel as yamahas are.
The best brakes ive ever had was 2003 r1 non radial brakes with race pads. One finger stoppies all day long
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
My prediction is the discs are not made from the same grade of steel as yamahas are.
The best brakes ive ever had was 2003 r1 non radial brakes with race pads. One finger stoppies all day long
Might well be truth, no not truth weight:crackup: just the truth.

I had an 02 R6 with braided lines, and they were the best stock brakes Ive ever felt!
As a previous 02 R1 guy the OEM unit was far superior than kwaks but i still modded the brakes with a PVM radial mstr, ss lines and vesrah pads...the results were astounding.

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
IF you are a viewer to this thread and you are reading this I Shervin Asemani, assure you that Generation 1 has excellent front Brakes with outstanding stopping power. I have ridden, tested, overloaded the brakes and I have pictures on my webpage in the forum of an Actual Gen 1 ZX-10R and I am telling you the front brakes of Gen 1 are more than great.
If you read someone try to come play cat and mouse that no the brakes are garbage, it is not because they are a new member or have no picture on their membership to prove anything toward their Own experience towards Gen 1 brakes only; it is all that and it is the fact they do not have identity to prove and to stand on what they are saying.
I do have identity, I do own an actual gen 1 at this very moment, I have pictures that you can see and I am telling you gen 1 has excellent front brakes.
They are over graded for street in fact in my opinion.

When it comes to race, there is absolutely no brake pad, brake rotor or caliper that can resist human force. The full Carbon, the full Ceramic, the classified material used in F1, Leman, Moto GP, and such, they all brake great until some point. There is a point that they can not stand the pressure of human demand in a race.

About hard braking or not braking on gen 1 regarding front brakes, once I raced with a great rider and I applied brake at 160mph (-/+5mph) and I did a stoppie that I still remember until this moment. I did not want to do stoppie, I just had to reduce speed and gear changing would not correspond with the time being at that time; I just went straight to brakes because I was about to have an almost immediate impact and down shift would results impact at 150mph (I had about 0.1 second to the target) and brakes perhaps results 120mph impact therefore, I went straight to brake. I only brake for about 1 second max and after the stoppie my speed was at 70mph!!! What is so interesting is the fact that the other rider was riding a new Yamaha R6 (2006+ model) and in 2 points that i went to 170mph i slowed down for him to keep the race fair -since R6 top speed is about 170mph-so it was all about acceleartation, deceleration and riding.
This race happended in 2009 or 2010 on a Sunday. His bike was black, He was black (African American), and he was wearing full race suit and his kneed pad on the suit was rubbed (he had turned with his knee down), he was an older guy that look young in his 40's i would say, he was a great racer and great rider but he was not an experienced rider (there are things you do in a race that shows your level of driving). We race for only 5 minutes and we travel about 15 miles. Another aspect, after i exit (exit can be refer to exit in a race track) he stopped behind me and came very gently and said "nice bike with a smile" and i answer "Thanks! You too!". Another aspect, there was something very unique about that bike. That bike was almost full black and it had very bright LED light on the sides of his front fender in such way that the LED were vetical to the ground. I would estimate it had 10LED on right and 10LED on the left on front wheel. The LED were white or light blue.
I said all this but the only reason that i am alive is because God wanted to not take my life that day, otherwise i just saw myself gone already.

You are saying gen 1 front brakes are bad, I am telling you the problem are not the front brakes; The problem is something else or perhaps the rider.

At the end of the day, it is the matter of Rider and Driver not the matter of the car or bike. For some, does not matter what you give them, they are never winners.

*

:bs: Do the masses a HUG favor and do not spread untruths, bogus pontificating garbage as it is in no way helpful when such things are done. Say goodnight to the good people shervin assemani :1848:

BD
And for some, it is just the matter of another negative post in the effort to scream their poisioned depressed lonely world just for a small look.
big daddy you have over 34k posts and they are bash after bash after bash with no definition whatsoever. Perhaps, you are a depressed outdated useless being and you dont' want to do any effort to change that instead you bash innocoent people first name and last name and opinions online without mentioning your first and last name and even a definition.
bigdaddy, You bashed those who are trying to add something to this world because you wish you could be that inteligent or at least useful but you are not and instead you bash them in attempt to get a meaning to your meaningless being. Your 34,443 posts all together do not even worth another new post in resopnd. I quoted your post here, so you will read this message. My message to you is, try to be more kind to yourself, try to recognize and respect the ones around you. When you accomplish that then try to use your powers to help others and you will get comfort. I promise you that until the day that you are going to bash me or bash this and bash that and bash other, you are going to be lost forever.

*

I am Shervin Asemani.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
My gen 1 i just sold had 2011 discs and modified 2009 calipers. Goodrich hoses. Sbs pads. Honda 19mm master.

I did try r6 calipers which i used at brands hatch.
I scortched the discs and had to replace them as they had work hardened and wouldnt work anywhere near as good after track day. R6 calipers are lovely calipers and are alot lighter.

I did a topic on how to convert them here;
zx10r 09/11 brake swap to 05
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
So you are saying gen 1 front brakes are bad, I am telling you the problem are not the front brakes; The problem is something else or perhaps the rider.

.
Its a known fact that after prolonged hard use the gen1 brakes overheat and suffer from massive fade.
A one off fast stop wouldnt show up the issue.
My friend raced in 2005 bss on a zx10r and although they were allowed to change the master they had massive problems with brake fade.
All of the zx10rs had problems in that series.

It wasnt just zx10s. Gsxrs and hondas had simular brakes too and all suffered.
My dad had k3 gsxr and i felt nasty brake fade on the road after a few miles fast riding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Thank you for your pictures and the thread in 2011.
I know what the problem is and i will tell you. I am not disscoring your pictures and i believe that your brakes got better after changing your calipers but i am not wrong. I am not wrong AND your brakes still got better?? Yes!
I will update this post (#39) in 30 days from the date this post #39 goes online.
I will give you the exact reason that i see happen to so many other riders that is hidden. I will tell you what it is.
I was planning not to; Becasue you posted your pictures, i will tell you and every one.
I will quate your post then, so you get a notification that my post is then online.
Good bye.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,537 Posts
IF you are a viewer to this thread and you are reading this I Shervin Asemani, assure you that Generation 1 has excellent front Brakes with outstanding stopping power. I have ridden, tested, overloaded the brakes and I have pictures on my webpage in the forum of an Actual Gen 1 ZX-10R and I am telling you the front brakes of Gen 1 are more than great.
If you read someone try to come play cat and mouse that no the brakes are garbage, it is not because they are a new member or have no picture on their membership to prove anything toward their Own experience towards Gen 1 brakes only; it is all that and it is the fact they do not have identity to prove and to stand on what they are saying.

:bs: Do the masses a HUGE favor and do not spread untruths, bogus pontificating garbage as it is in no way helpful when such things are done. Say goodnight to the good people shervin assemani :1848:

BD
 
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
Top