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Discussion Starter #1
So ive been trying to search through here to figure out which is the better option. From what I've read, the bazzaz is better than the PCV, but how does it compare to the reflash? I'm still a ways off from doing this, but before i do it i plan to add an akra w/ link pipe and BMC air filter.
 

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Speed Freak
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Reflashes wont get you spot on where you need to be unless your on the dyno when your re-flashing, you cant guess with certain mods what the bike will need for fueling changes.

The whole deal with flashing the ECU is to remove the restrictions they placed in the US such as timing and fueling you get around it by removing the secondary butterflies but you will not gain all power back since they are pulling up to 8* timing.

your best bet is to get your ECU flashed keeping the butterflies in the bike and then adding a pcv or bazzaz and getting that tuned with your mods in place.

In a nut shell the flash will unlock more power and the pcv or bazzaz will allow you to fine tune the bike to your mods.

See my signature for the guy who were the first to flash the 2011's and unleash the hidden power, tell them I sent you ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Reflashes wont get you spot on where you need to be unless your on the dyno when your re-flashing, you cant guess with certain mods what the bike will need for fueling changes.

The whole deal with flashing the ECU is to remove the restrictions they placed in the US such as timing and fueling you get around it by removing the secondary butterflies but you will not gain all power back since they are pulling up to 8* timing.

your best bet is to get your ECU flashed keeping the butterflies in the bike and then adding a pcv or bazzaz and getting that tuned with your mods in place.

In a nut shell the flash will unlock more power and the pcv or bazzaz will allow you to fine tune the bike to your mods.

See my signature for the guy who were the first to flash the 2011's and unleash the hidden power, tell them I sent you ;-)
Thanks Garth, thats exactly the caliber answer i was looking for! I checked out Guhl Motors and they arent too far from where i am. I probably wont be doing this work until the end of this season so Ill be able to trailer my bike there and let them have at it on the dyno. I read up on the secondaries a while ago and decided that i was going to keep them in regardless. Before i spend my hard earned money on a reflash and a bazzaz i would like to get all my power performance mods out of the way...any recommendations?

I'll also be looking for a good suspension shop in the NY/tri-state area. If anyone knows of a reputable one please let me know.
 

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Speed Freak
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get rid of the cat in the pipe for starters and you really wanna ditch the secondarys, pulling the secondarys alone with a stock exhaust ont here will give you 12hp at max rpms

you should retune for it, if your looking for a simple quick fix for power you can buy a pc3 or pcv from a 06-10 gsxr 600 or 750 and most of the zx6rs will work as well for tuning instruments and I have some good maps that will work for a stock pipe set up or I have maps for my bike that has the leo slip on as well.


BMC air filters are now avaiable threw their online site, think mine was close to 120 shipped direct from them in Italy.

for more power get rid of the cat for sure, freed up 10hp midrange is the big kicker!
 

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Your going to gain far more with a custom reflash that you will with any of the piggy backs on the market. And its very simple to do; dyno the bike in stock form, send us the ecu and sheets, we will custom re write the file for you and your bike, and return it to you.


Joe McClughan
Dynotronics,Inc
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Your going to gain far more with a custom reflash that you will with any of the piggy backs on the market. And its very simple to do; dyno the bike in stock form, send us the ecu and sheets, we will custom re write the file for you and your bike, and return it to you.


Joe McClughan
Dynotronics,Inc
Joe, I'm no expert and I see where you are coming from about doing the custom reflash, but wont there it be a less than perfect tune if i dyno the bike here and have it tuned by you guys in TX? elevation, air quality (pollutants, humidity, etc), air temp will all be different from what it is here in NY....I'm sure you guys do a great job with your tunes, but wouldnt the ideal way to do it be to take my entire bike to have it dynoed stock, then have the reflash done same day?
 

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Joe, I'm no expert and I see where you are coming from about doing the custom reflash, but wont there it be a less than perfect tune if i dyno the bike here and have it tuned by you guys in TX? elevation, air quality (pollutants, humidity, etc), air temp will all be different from what it is here in NY....I'm sure you guys do a great job with your tunes, but wouldnt the ideal way to do it be to take my entire bike to have it dynoed stock, then have the reflash done same day?
Sure, if your close to Don, thats a good way to do it. However, the difference in alt makes no difference to the ecu, and here is why; The factory ecus come with one file for the US, and thats because the bike can compensate for differences you mention by design.

:thumbsup:
 

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Speed Freak
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Joe, I'm no expert and I see where you are coming from about doing the custom reflash, but wont there it be a less than perfect tune if i dyno the bike here and have it tuned by you guys in TX? elevation, air quality (pollutants, humidity, etc), air temp will all be different from what it is here in NY....I'm sure you guys do a great job with your tunes, but wouldnt the ideal way to do it be to take my entire bike to have it dynoed stock, then have the reflash done same day?
I agree with you, I'm not all for the mail in flash/tune if I were to not piggy back the ECU and FINE tune the ECU, not knocking dynotronics or Guhls work at all but I Would never just send out a ECU to get tuned with out doing a dyno run right there on the spot ya know. I dont think you can guesstimate how the bike will exactly react and if you have to make changes it can be a pain in the butt to get back on a dyno make pulls send info send ecu wait for ecu and so on.

I'm all for the "un-locking" of power thought that you guys and Guhl can offer! if you think about it, the flashes for the Gen 4's are the most bang for the buck mod you can do! Even more so than a light weight battery like the shoria's that only save you 2 lbs lol. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sure, if your close to Don, thats a good way to do it. However, the difference in alt makes no difference to the ecu, and here is why; The factory ecus come with one file for the US, and thats because the bike can compensate for differences you mention by design.

:thumbsup:
I know that the bikes come with one map for the US. It wouldnt make sense for Kawi, or any mfg for that matter, to make a custom map for each state they send it to.

I do however find it hard to believe that altitude doesnt make a difference. It's basic physics, the lower your elevation the greater volume of the air above you and greater force being applied by the mass of all that air, resulting in higher average air pressures. Higher average air pressure means that your air will have more O2 (and everything else i.e. NOx, SOx etc.) per given unit of volume. TX has a pretty vast range of elevations, so unless your shop is at roughly the same elevation as the shop i get my stock dyno done at, the tune will be off. Correct?

I'm not trying to bash anyone here so lets get that out of the way. I've heard great things about your shop and I certainly respect the level of knowledge inside said shop. I just like to have all my ducks in a row before i go spending money shipping my ecu all over the country.
 

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Speed Freak
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Our bikes do have atmospheric pressure sensors and that sensor will offset the map richer or leaner with the different elevations, that's why the bike can travel all threw out the world and have correct fueling.

I think that if your going for max performance though it should be dyno tuned or data logged.

I live in FL but I have had people send me their power commander maps and their air fuel charts from their bikes and make a map so I do see the logic in dynotronics mail in flash tunes ya know.
 

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I know that the bikes come with one map for the US. It wouldnt make sense for Kawi, or any mfg for that matter, to make a custom map for each state they send it to.

I do however find it hard to believe that altitude doesnt make a difference. It's basic physics, the lower your elevation the greater volume of the air above you and greater force being applied by the mass of all that air, resulting in higher average air pressures. Higher average air pressure means that your air will have more O2 (and everything else i.e. NOx, SOx etc.) per given unit of volume. TX has a pretty vast range of elevations, so unless your shop is at roughly the same elevation as the shop i get my stock dyno done at, the tune will be off. Correct?

I'm not trying to bash anyone here so lets get that out of the way. I've heard great things about your shop and I certainly respect the level of knowledge inside said shop. I just like to have all my ducks in a row before i go spending money shipping my ecu all over the country.
I think Garth answered your question better than I did!

But that is indeed the way these ecus work, alt, air density, ect does not make a bit of difference, the ecu compensates for it.
 

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Speed Freak
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Also compensates for ram air pressure which you guys should be able to change as well, I know I have had bikes that lean out excessively with ram air and sorta throws the lower geared maps outta whack sometimes.

Dynotronics, are you guys running the paisinni (sp?) stuff? I saw when they brought their bikes to the majave mile they couldnt get past the 186mph speed limiter, know if they got around that?
 

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I agree with you, I'm not all for the mail in flash/tune if I were to not piggy back the ECU and FINE tune the ECU, not knocking dynotronics or Guhls work at all but I Would never just send out a ECU to get tuned with out doing a dyno run right there on the spot ya know. I dont think you can guesstimate how the bike will exactly react and if you have to make changes it can be a pain in the butt to get back on a dyno make pulls send info send ecu wait for ecu and so on.

I'm all for the "un-locking" of power thought that you guys and Guhl can offer! if you think about it, the flashes for the Gen 4's are the most bang for the buck mod you can do! Even more so than a light weight battery like the shoria's that only save you 2 lbs lol. :thumbsup:
Oh I agree with you completely. But as I'm sure your aware, most guys like you already have some form of piggyback on the bike, and thats the best way to fine tune if your not here in our shop.

However, that said, you might be suprised how close we(and Don) can get to the perfect file for a distance. Remember, the ecus that are now state of the art on bikes, are stuff we were working with on asian cars 15-18 years ago. So we have a pretty good idea what works and what does not.

But all that said, yes if you track your bike, and your serious, then the BEST way to tune would be a custom reflash based on a load cell dyno while the bike is straped to the dyno. We do have dealers that do this very thing, but it ain't cheap, but then who said racing is?!:crackup:
 

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Also compensates for ram air pressure which you guys should be able to change as well, I know I have had bikes that lean out excessively with ram air and sorta throws the lower geared maps outta whack sometimes.

Dynotronics, are you guys running the paisinni (sp?) stuff? I saw when they brought their bikes to the majave mile they couldnt get past the 186mph speed limiter, know if they got around that?
Yes, we long ago cracked the limiter issue on the mitsubishi ecu
 

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Speed Freak
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Oh I agree with you completely. But as I'm sure your aware, most guys like you already have some form of piggyback on the bike, and thats the best way to fine tune if your not here in our shop.

However, that said, you might be suprised how close we(and Don) can get to the perfect file for a distance. Remember, the ecus that are now state of the art on bikes, are stuff we were working with on asian cars 15-18 years ago. So we have a pretty good idea what works and what does not.

But all that said, yes if you track your bike, and your serious, then the BEST way to tune would be a custom reflash based on a load cell dyno while the bike is straped to the dyno. We do have dealers that do this very thing, but it ain't cheap, but then who said racing is?!:crackup:
:goodpost:

I agree with ya on the racing aint cheap for sure!!! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all the input guys...i just came off a 2004 gsxr (way less technology lol) so i still have A LOT to learn about the new stuff.
 
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