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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a used PC3 & Ignition Module for the 2007 ZX-10R engine in my race car. They are installed and the engine is running well. I raced at Barber last month with no problems, so the installed map *might* be fine.

I have a race on 11/5/09 at Road Atlanta and may go to a chassis dyno beforehand to make sure my AFR is good and optimized. I have not yet checked to see what map is currently installed, but pretty sure I want a custom map.

I've been reading instructions and Googling for knowledge, but would really like to hook up with someone here to help walk through the procedures they've done with success. I'd also like advice on how to optimize the ignition.

I'm hoping it will be relatively easy for someone with experience since I'm only concerned with WOT (not drivability, part throttle, good mileage, ...).

Thanks!
 

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Next time you come to Barbers and you dont mind me drooling on your car, Please send me a PM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cool. I was confident there'd be some quality help here.

My first obstacle is I haven't been able to connect my laptop to the PC3. I tried a few things to correct but no luck. Tonight I will try a different laptop. I'm anxious to see what the current installed map looks like. I should be able to work past this obstacle soon. Probably something simple.

Goal #2 is to get comfortable with making changes so I can be efficient at the dyno.

Goal #3 is to make a plan before going to the dyno. For instance, do I do ignition timing first before AFR? After run #1, do I look for HP dips and AFR readings not near 12.9 - 13.1?


Next time you come to Barbers and you dont mind me drooling on your car, Please send me a PM.
Come to Road Atlanta. There will be a few bike powered cars, but mostly GSXR's and a few R1's. I'm the only Kaw guy, AFAIK.

My club (SCCA) only has one race per year at Barber, usually around Labor Day. Fun track. I have video, but I haven't had time to edit it down for posting.

There is an outside chance I might bring the race car and my street bike to the North GA Mountains when the ZX-10R group goes (Springtime?), if they have it at a place like Skeenah Camp Grounds (easier to bring a trailer to a place like that).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Progress

Found out my mistake. Pretty dumb. I had the USB plug in the wrong place. The picture below shows where it dosen't go. I plugged it into the top of the PC3 itself it it worked instantly. I was able to view the installed, custom map.

Next steps: Practice changing values and make an appointment at the dyno.

Still open to mentoring ...
 

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Did you get everything squared away at the dyno? (100% throttle map and timing)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Did you get everything squared away at the dyno? (100% throttle map and timing)
Thanks for the bump.

My appointment at the chassis dyno is later this month (10/30).

Prior to then I'm going to practice changes so I'll be efficient with my time there. I think the air/fuel part will be pretty straightforward - just look for variations in the HP, torque and AFR graphs and make adjustments. I'm fortunate that I'm really only concerned with full throttle power. I don't care much about mileage, drivability, off-idle, etc.

Regarding the ignition module, I don't yet know what I should do about that. Back in the day it was "advance till it knoocks". I don't know if that's still true. Up until now I've been using 93 octane street pump gas, but may be going to something like Sunoco GT Plus 110.

2 years ago I took my race car there and had 142 HP with the 2004 ZX-10R (no Power Commander). It will be interesting to see what this 2007 engine does.
 

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Ive had alot of time on the dyno with my bike and can tell you that our bikes like about 4 degrees of advancement at 80-100 throttle. Set yourself at about 12.9 afr. We always map the bike first and then go back and add ignition to see what kind of power the bike picks up. It'll probably pick up about 2hp with the advanced ignition.
 

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Regarding the ignition module, I don't yet know what I should do about that. Back in the day it was "advance till it knoocks". I don't know if that's still true. Up until now I've been using 93 octane street pump gas, but may be going to something like Sunoco GT Plus 110.
Modern engines are alot more efficient than the older ones. If you can hear knock, its pretty bad! Something on the order of 5 or so degrees too much timing. Most people stick with around 4-5 degrees in various areas.
 

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I've only tuned fuel maps. Why only adv timing in certain areas on naturally aspirated stock engines. I understand nos/turbo take timing out in certain areas. I guess once a get ign mod and play on the dyno I'll find out, but for now any comments would be helpful.
 

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I've only tuned fuel maps. Why only adv timing in certain areas on naturally aspirated stock engines. I understand nos/turbo take timing out in certain areas. I guess once a get ign mod and play on the dyno I'll find out, but for now any comments would be helpful.
Well its just like the fuel map to some degree. Engine are more efficient in some areas and less efficient in others. So in some areas you need or can get away with more timing and in others, it will ping/detonate.

Example, when you accelerate hard at low RPM, normally you will have less timing because the engine is working hardest. At higher RPM, the engine can tolerate more timing for a combination of reasons. Less time at TDC, better F/A mixture, Intake and exhaust tuning, etc.

Keep in mind that we are talking degrees here as in singular. The fuel maps are in percentages so you could easily add 5% of fuel to see if you felt a change. Making large timing changes COULD cost you a motor.
 

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What internals part could be damaged w/ high timing?
 

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What internals part could be damaged w/ high timing?
Short answer... Pistons, rings, valves, head gaskets, rods, bearings, cranks.
Long answer... Google detonation, engine knocking, spark knock, pinging.:thumbsup:
 

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I guess I'm better off just making pulls on the dyno and see which way increases HP. I think as long as I go in small increments I should be Okay. I would think if the timing is way off the bike would run/sound like shyt.
 

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I'll chime in here. From what I;ve personally seen just like dirt ninja said 4 degrees is about all she takes to gain some small hp, these motors are decently efficient so theres not a totally big improvement for timing. Now what I have seen is when a cyl head has become less efficent you can make up for a little biut of power by adding timing, my motor at one point was running 10 degreees advanced. when i got my valves cut and everything was solid I backed the timing down to 4 degrees.

now for how to add timing, some people like to go by throttle % and some like to go by rpms. I did my maps based on a little bit of both but mainly throttle percentage. from the 2-20% throttle I had 2 degrees in and then 40-60% I have 3 degrees and then 80-100 I added 4 degrees. this worked pretty well for me and it actually helped my gas milage increase a bit for the lower rpms.

if your running pump gas I'd try it at 4 degrees and then try to make a pull with more timing in it like 6 degrees and see what it makes. it might not like it and not pick up any more power or possibly loose some but just back it down even if its fine back to 4 degrees.

if your gunna run that race gas you just gotta see what the bike likes, obviously the higher octane will prevent detonation but it might just be shooting in the dark with race gas and not pick up any horsepower.

have you looked at any e85 stuff? if you could run that theres some good hp gains on that, seems most people just upgrade fuel pump and the stock injectors are maybe ok to run your application, if not you can get 08+ zx10r of zx14 injectors which are 12 hole 440cc injectors instead of 330's which are in the 04-07's

hope that helps anything....
 

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I guess I'm better off just making pulls on the dyno and see which way increases HP. I think as long as I go in small increments I should be Okay. I would think if the timing is way off the bike would run/sound like shyt.
the timing can only be manipulated with an ignition module or altering the ecu, unless you are talking about cam timing.
 

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Dammn Garth you are da man! :kneel:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Great info, guys. Thanks.

Regarding E85, that's ethanol in gasoline, right? Well, apparently our older fuel cells don't like that stuff, and I've heard pretty much all gasoline around Atlanta has it. That's why I'm considering racing gas, at least for this upcoming dyno session and race. I'm not happy about paying the extra $$$, but right now I have a borrowed fuel cell installed and I don't want to hurt it. Last month I discovered all the fuel was gone out of my race car. I had about 1.75 gallons from the last race and it all leaked out. The fuel cell looked bad when I took it out (rubbery coating gone off the bottom). It looked great two years ago when I installed it. Apparently, ethanol can eat right through the type of cell that came in my car. I need to look into alternatives this winter.
 

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Another question for ya. I know the 06/07 pulls up to the rev limiter, did you get the code from Dynoject to extend your rev limiter? I was wondering how far pass the rev limiter the peak HP was.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes. I bought this PC3 used and the PO had the redline extend added. I guess I'll confirm that at the dyno.

The PO also had a custom map created, and that's the one I ran at Barber. It's description says:
Arrow Slip On Exhaust
Thin Head Gasket
Kawasaki Racing Cam
Pump Gas
RSR Custom Map

Attached are two screen prints of that fuel and ignition map. I have not yet decided if I'll start with these, or if I should start with the stock base map, or one from the Power Commander web site. Any recommendations?
 

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