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Discussion Starter #1
I hope someone can give me some insight into what my problem might be because I really do not want to have to trailer my bike to my mechanic's shop.
I have put new Speigler stainless brake lines on my 2012 and I think I followed the directions to a tee. I can not get any firmness in the front lever. When I bleed the system, I get clear fluid with no bubbles in the line coming out the bleeder valve, but the lever just has no resistance. I used a vacuum pump to siphon the fluid and I also used just the lever. I will squeeze the lever and the fluid moves through. If I keep the lever depressed, the fluid holds steady in the line for a second or two but then it starts to slowly creep back. That tells me I have a leak somewhere, but I have no fluid coming out anywhere, all my banjos and bleeders are tight and I never let the fluid drain all the way out of the reservoir when I was bleeding.
Does anyone have any experience with the gen 4 abs system or with replacing the lines? If I have a leak, should I see fluid coming out somewhere? How do I have solid fluid coming through the bleeder if I have a leak? Would I hear a leak?
I welcome and appreciate any and all assistance.
 

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Did you bleed your Master Cylinder?

If not,you may have an air lock in there.
Bleed your master and then both your calipers again,L/H then R/H.
Keep the reservoir lid screwed on tight whilst bleeding,and make sure you don't let your fluid run too low.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You mean use the breather nipple to introduce fluid instead of the reservoir tank?
(Sorry it took me so long to respond. It is 2 am here and I fell asleep.)
 

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You mean use the breather nipple to introduce fluid instead of the reservoir tank?
(Sorry it took me so long to respond. It is 2 am here and I fell asleep.)
There is no nipple to "introduce fluid" to the system. The master cylinder has a bleed nipple on it just like the calipers. Fluid is added to the reservoir and the master cylinder is bled first. Then each of the calipers. Bleeding the MC is the same as bleeding the calipers except you must bleed it first or it will never be right.


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No.
There is a bleeder on your Master Cylinder.Bleed fluid through that the same way you bleed your calipers.
I think the bleeder nipple is in front of your throttle cables (sitting on bike) facing skyward.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I just tried it. I used a mighty vac and drew the fluid through the bleed nipple on the master. It drew fine into the master but as it come out through the caliper there were lots of air bubbles. Also if I tried to pump the lever with everything connected ( hoses on both bleed valves, full bottle on the master, empty on caliper) the fluid seemed to move the opposite direction. Also, I had the reservoir cap on tight the whole time, but the level seemed to drop some. Not all the way, though.
Doers it sound like I have a leak? One of the crimp sleeves on one of the lines seems like it might be a tiny bit looser than the other crimps, but Speigler is a pretty well built brand. I would be surprised if it was defective.
 

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I just tried it. I used a mighty vac and drew the fluid through the bleed nipple on the master. It drew fine into the master but as it come out through the caliper there were lots of air bubbles. Also if I tried to pump the lever with everything connected ( hoses on both bleed valves, full bottle on the master, empty on caliper) the fluid seemed to move the opposite direction. Also, I had the reservoir cap on tight the whole time, but the level seemed to drop some. Not all the way, though.
Doers it sound like I have a leak? One of the crimp sleeves on one of the lines seems like it might be a tiny bit looser than the other crimps, but Speigler is a pretty well built brand. I would be surprised if it was defective.
No, it doesn't sound at all like a leak. It sounds like you're not bleeding it properly and there's air stuck in the lines.

The mighty vac is great for getting a course bleed on the system, but you're going to have to hand bleed it to finish it off. Reservoir cap has nothing to do with it and you can leave that off. Just don't drain all the fluid out of the cup or it will suck air and you'll have to start over. I leave to cap off so I can refill it quickly while I'm bleeding. Start at the MC and bleed it by hand at this point. Pressure on the lever, crack the bleeder, lever goes to bar, close the bleeder, release lever, repeat. Once you get nothing but fluid out of this part, move to the righthand caliper and repeat this process. Then move the the left one. The ABS is going to be more of a pain since you have to get all of the air out of the control module as well. Try leaning the bike from side to side or bleed it on the sidestand to allow the air to find the highest point in the system and one of the bleeder screws. You may have to rebleed the MC a couple of times just to be sure all the air is out. Once you get it good, leave it alone for 24 hours and then rebleed it again one more for good measure. If you're getting fluid at this point, put the vacuum bleeder down and grab a rag and a wrench.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for your help. One question, though. When I am bleeding, should i be introducing fluid into the system through the reservoir or should I attach a hose to the bleeder valve on the master and suck it from a container? Where should I put the purge line? Can I just put one on the right caliper and leave it there for all three different bleeds ( master, right caliper, left caliper )?
Also, how long is a container of brake fluid good once it is opened? I am in Arizona, so there is not much moisture in the air. Thanks again for the help.
 

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All fluid should be added only through the reservoir. You attach the purge hoses to the bleed nipples and bleed each one individually. No, you can't bleed the entire system off just one screw. The bleed screws sit at the highest point in each of the areas. In theory, the air will rise up to where the bleed screws are and you'll purge the air out when they are opened and fluid is forced out through them. Start at the top and work down. Just make sure you refill at the reservoir only before it gets too low and exposes the the hole at the bottom. As you bleed fluid out, the cup will get low so add more.

Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I meant can I use the brake fluid I opened yesterday? Everyone says you can not use brake fluid that has been opened, to only use fluid from a new container, so how long is it good once it has been opened?
So, I will start with the purge line attached to the bleed valve on the master and pour fluid in through the reservoir. Should I only use the lever to pump fluid through the system, or can I use the hand pump? Since the air bubbles want to move up to the highest point, should I maybe start at the calipers and then move up to the master?
Also, does it help to have the container that I am using to catch the fluid coming out positioned above the bleed valve or doesn't it matter? Will moving the bike out into the sun and warming it up have any effect either way?
Can I just hire you to come here and do this for me?? :BangHead:
 

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I meant can I use the brake fluid I opened yesterday? Everyone says you can not use brake fluid that has been opened, to only use fluid from a new container, so how long is it good once it has been opened?
So, I will start with the purge line attached to the bleed valve on the master and pour fluid in through the reservoir. Should I only use the lever to pump fluid through the system, or can I use the hand pump? Since the air bubbles want to move up to the highest point, should I maybe start at the calipers and then move up to the master?
Also, does it help to have the container that I am using to catch the fluid coming out positioned above the bleed valve or doesn't it matter? Will moving the bike out into the sun and warming it up have any effect either way?
Can I just hire you to come here and do this for me?? :BangHead:
The container you have is fine to keep using. Once open, it has a shelf life, but we're talking months to years depending on environment and how it's stored. You're fine with that.

Since you've got fluid in the system already, scrap the vacuum bleeder and use the lever to move all fluid from this point. You must get the MC to pressurize first so you can start moving the fluid through the system. That's why you can't start at the calipers. You MUST start at the MC and work the fluid down.

In the sun doesn't matter. Neither does the position of the catch container. Once fluid is out of the brake system, it can drip on the floor for all it matters. The catch tank and hose is there to prevent it from getting on your paint or it will strip the paint if left alone. Don't reuse and bled fluid and when you're done, hose off the bike well to remove any splattered or spilled fluid.

Where are you located? I'll start looking at flights to your place. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Where are you located? I'll start looking at flights to your place. :wink:[/QUOTE]

LOL.
I am in Phoenix, but my father lives in Ft. Meyers and he will be coming to visit in a month or so. Maybe you could hitch a ride with him! ( Actually nevermind. If I don't have this fixed by then, it won't matter anyway, because I will probably have killed myself. :suicide: )
 

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LOL.
I am in Phoenix, but my father lives in Ft. Meyers and he will be coming to visit in a month or so. Maybe you could hitch a ride with him! ( Actually nevermind. If I don't have this fixed by then, it won't matter anyway, because I will probably have killed myself. :suicide: )
OK. Well, I can be out there Monday to hook you up and grab some beers before the flight out the next morning. I'd just need your credit card number to book the flight. :wink:
 

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Regarding the MityVac bleeding brakes

Be careful not to pump up the MityVac Vac too much when bleeding the brakes because it will actually pull air in around the thread on the bleeder nipples on the rotors. You don't need more than about ten to fifteen lbs of pressure .. I put Teflon tape on mine to alleviate this problem( but this requires you to start all over again because you have to remove the bleeder nipples to put the Teflon tape on them). I use the old fashioned method of just using lever pressure for the calipers. Then use the MityVac to bleed the master cylinder.

The ABS system need no special technique. Cycle clean brake fluid through it all until you don't get any bubbles and you should be OK.

Speedy
 

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Stupid thing to point out, but it happened to a "fried of mine" :D

Make sure you're calipers aren't on upside down, or air will get trapped and you'll end up with the issues you described... Took me a few days to figure that one out. Err, I mean it took my friend a few days to sort out ;)
 

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Oh and..


Same brake setup, so it should explain the steps fairly easily and you'll see what you may have been doing incorrectly.
 
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