[RANDYR41]

Hello, I am using a gen 4 ZX10R engine in a circle track dirt car. I have been running Gen1 and Gen2 engines in 2nd gear. The Gen4 engine does not want to Revv. I don't have the tach installed, but it acts like it is hitting the rev limiter before we get on the straight away. I have a gauge, but the leads are not long enough to put in the car, but it is not throwing any codes when i plug it in and run it. Any Ideas?

I do not run wheel sensors, and the engine/harness is from a non ABS bike.

Thanks
Randy

 

[Doppler]

The wheel sensers are used on the non ABS so the traction control can receive data about wheel speeds. Maybe if it doesn't get that data it limits the power in some sort of safe mode. Just a guess.

 

[TechX]

Has the ecu been reflashed. Perhaps like mentioned above TC. Is it turned off or disabled in the ecu. If not try doing that.

 

[SkyDork]

You have to make sure the traction control is off. It's likely intervening and causing your issues.

 

[scout]

Call Robert Hass in Salinas, Tommies Glass. I think he did work on our engine or knows someone who has.

 

[RANDYR41]

All stock ECU, I made sure the traction control was off. I was hoping someone knew of a restriction. I will switch rear end gears to run in 3rd.

 

[SkyDork]

All stock ECU, I made sure the traction control was off. I was hoping someone knew of a restriction. I will switch rear end gears to run in 3rd.

Are you running the instrument cluster? You can see if the TC is intervening on it or not. The stock setup defaults to an active TC mode every single time you turn the ignition on. You'd have to turn the system off every run. So I'm not quite sure how you have it set up.

 

[RANDYR41]

I don't have the cluster in the car, but hook it up before going on the track to make sure it is off, Then I disconnect the gauge. I am going to work on getting the gauge in the car, but the cable is to short right now.

 

[SkyDork]

I don't have the cluster in the car, but hook it up before going on the track to make sure it is off, Then I disconnect the gauge. I am going to work on getting the gauge in the car, but the cable is to short right now.

Yes, you need to do that. The newer motors are much more sensitive to the electronics. Without the cluster in there, you have no way of knowing if the system is functioning properly or if the TC is intervening. Hell, you have be getting into a "limp mode" condition and that's why the engine is being limited. Are there any FI warnings? You really need the cluster hooked up so you can see these things in real time.

Regearing the car to run in 3rd gear isn't going to help much since I think you'll be seeing the same restriction if it's caused by a the TC or a malfunction.

 

[RANDYR41]

Here is a video. You can hear what is going on. Thanks for all the suggestions

https://youtu.be/BFrgqAMQXjY

Randy

 

[Mike_w1985]

How often do you change engines? Just watched your vid, the engines in those cars must take a hammering.

Is there any way u can run it with cluster pluged in and have your camera recording cluster? It Would show if TC is kicking in, sound like its just on limmiter in vid TC makes a distinct sound you would defo pick it out with wheels spinning on that surface

 

[skidooboy]

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f28/gen-5-2015-zx10-abs-off-315417.html

see post 3 by archer... if this was an abs model bike, the motor and harness came from, it might be THE issue. Ski

 

[RANDYR41]

Installing the cluster is definitely my next move, And I was going to do exactly that. Figure the video would be helpfull. Engines last 2-3 years, 15 races a year if you leave them stock. At least the gen1 and gen2 engines do.

Unless I am totally off on my rear gear, there is no way this should be in the rev limiter.

Gen 1 and 2 engines have the same transmission ratio and the same reduction ratio. Gen4 engines have same transmission ratio, but different reduction ratio. My final drive on gen 1 and 2 was 11.29. I was running a 11.38 final drive in the second half of that video. I thought the gen4 had a higher red line so the extra point on the gear ratio should have been minor.

Here is a video of Gen2 Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rEkY3h3Xyo

Here is a video of gen1 engine. The cars behind us are all gixxer:crackup: This video is good because you can hear the limiter just kiss at the end of the straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOakyMYrM4Q

Keep in mind this is all the same exhaust and muffler for all the videos.

 

[Mike_w1985]

Thats good going, was just curious

Probably a stupid question but is clutch cable got enough free play? Just incase clutch is slipping when most of the power is being used. gearing on the road is tall on gen4 so like u say you prob shouldn't be on rev limiter so soon.

Looks like awesome fun though ?

 

[RANDYR41]

I took the car to the dyno this weekend. No codes until it hits about 10,800. At that point it is just like hitting the rev limiter. It gives me code 24 and 27 which are wheel rotation sensors. Traction control is turned off, but it must be looking for speed signal? Does anybody know if just hooking up the wheel sensors would fix this or is it looking for the pulse signal?

Also curious about the meter. My engine did not come with a meter/gauge. I bought one on ebay, but it has abs light that is always on. Does that matter? Also low fuel is always flashing since I do not have the sender.

Thanks
Randy

 

[Animal11]

I took the car to the dyno this weekend. No codes until it hits about 10,800. At that point it is just like hitting the rev limiter. It gives me code 24 and 27 which are wheel rotation sensors. Traction control is turned off, but it must be looking for speed signal? Does anybody know if just hooking up the wheel sensors would fix this or is it looking for the pulse signal?

Also curious about the meter. My engine did not come with a meter/gauge. I bought one on ebay, but it has abs light that is always on. Does that matter? Also low fuel is always flashing since I do not have the sender.

Thanks
Randy

I'm pretty sure it's looking for the pulse signal from the rear wheel to get the ground speed measurement.

The tone ring is fairly cheap, like $10. If you have the sensor already and can fab up a way to run it on the rear axle that may be the fastest way to be up and running. The motor makes a shit-ton more power from 10.8k up to ~13.2k

the abs light and fuel light shouldn't matter if it's not throwing a code

 

[renais]

Hah, that looks like fun :thumbsup:

hope you get it sorted :smile2:

 

[SkyDork]

I took the car to the dyno this weekend. No codes until it hits about 10,800. At that point it is just like hitting the rev limiter. It gives me code 24 and 27 which are wheel rotation sensors. Traction control is turned off, but it must be looking for speed signal? Does anybody know if just hooking up the wheel sensors would fix this or is it looking for the pulse signal?

Also curious about the meter. My engine did not come with a meter/gauge. I bought one on ebay, but it has abs light that is always on. Does that matter? Also low fuel is always flashing since I do not have the sender.

Thanks
Randy

Animal11 pretty much answered your question.

TC may be turned off, but the system is still doing integrity testing in the background to monitor the status at all times. It does this by checking the pulses from the sensor rings. I would expect you to need to hook up the sensor rings to get those codes to clear (which would have the side benefit of allowing you to actually use the TC in the dirt :wink.

That said, I don't think there's anything limiting the motor when those signals aren't there. Something else is not allowing the motor to get to redline and stopping short at almost 11,000rpm. What else don't you have hooked up on the rig?

Also, the ABS light on the cluster is due to using an ABS cluster on a non-ABS ECU and not having the ABS module connected. Shouldn't affect anything in the running other than having the annoying light on all the time.

 

[RANDYR41]

Thanks for the replies. The other items not hooked up are the fan and the fuel pump. I run those thru separate toggle switches. I have none of the lighting hooked up, but have not removed any of the connections. Side Stand switch is looped. Starter lockout switch (clutch Lever) is not connected. I use the woodcraft ignition switch eliminator and have both bar switches installed. No Exhaust Servo. Not sure what else.

Thanks
Randy