[Norman]

Hi guys!
Hope someone can give me advice!

I drive a 2012 Zx10R, I bought it when it had 4000 kilometers on the clock.
Bought the bike from a Kawasaki dealership, and told me it was a track bike.
It had a rear racing sprocket on until about 18000km. Then changed to original, because the workshop told me that it puts to much tension on the engine. I drove always in full power mode.
I am definitely not a speed junkie, can not even put the motorcycle on the back wheel.

My question:
Is it possible for a cam chain and tensioner to say goodbye on a bike that has 24800 kilometers on the clock.

I must confess, I once did rev the kawasaki into 15000rpm, but the bike was not gear, and temperature was 65F. It almost seems that after that day there is a slight : "Don't know how to put it" a grrrrrrr noise. From about 3000rpm - 6000rpm, and from gear selection:
1-3.... The higher I go in RPM's the noice goes away. Weirdest thing....!
The bike has power, would not say it looses power or anything. Just that darn noise....

Had the kawasaki at 4 workshops, they all said it is the cam chain, but the tensioner would have fixed the tension on the chain?
Or faulty cam tensioner...

Then after saving for a 3 months the cash to fix the bike, the same guys said the bike is fine, clean engine. Even took the bike for a run....
And then again today, 13 March 2021 same noise again. It is difficult to describe the noise. Anyone who can help. Or perhaps tell me what exactly the noice would be, if a cam chain is in the beginning of needing replacement.
Thank you so much.
And I apologize for the bad description.... Don't know how els to put it.

 

[Twistedsocal13]

First off, there is literally no way and I mean zero chance in hell you reved your bike to over 13,600 or 14000 rpm unless you have a 636 or 600, the liter bikes just don't let you rev them that high, next, doing so with no load is sooooo damn much worse on them than running them loaded up to the rev limiter, DON'T FUCKING DO THAT and I say that in the nicest possible way and only with a desire for you to not fuck your bike off. Don't free rev your bike above mid rpm, there really just is not reason...anyhow, the manual cam chain tensioner will help solve some metallic noise you may be hearing but the kawi is a noisy beast anyway...the way you say it though I doubt it's the cam chain..you could record the sound on video and post on youtube.

 

[Norman]

Okay, cool.
Thank you for the advice.
Richest of blessings. Will take the bike in to Kawasaki Workshop and have them open her up, and inspect everything.

 

[Twistedsocal13]

I mean man, is it losing power? And loud clunking or jerking or other non rhymic noises of metallic nature. Or is it just the clicking grating noise of a cam chain? Get a manual tensioner and have them adjust that and you should be golden , you can always change the oil or so a full flush and see what comes out

 

[Norman]

I mean man, is it losing power? And loud clunking or jerking or other non rhymic noises of metallic nature. Or is it just the clicking grating noise of a cam chain? Get a manual tensioner and have them adjust that and you should be golden , you can always change the oil or so a full flush and see what comes out

I was running on 300V for about 5000km.
Did the oil change yesterday, oil was dirty but no fine metal shavings etc...
I have a full system Yoshi on, and she does make a lot of noise, so also a bit hard to hear when the "grrrrrr sound" comes on. She is really loud, so when the technician took her for a drive I am sure he opened her up, because I could hear him from far, and know the sound of my bike. He was pushing her to hear anything, should have treated her gently, to try to make out about the sound, so yeah, all he heard was the full system Yoshi.
And his ego on my girl.

I will say thou, that when I am driving, I can hear the sound from sitting up straight, and sounds like it is coming from underneath the petrol tank, I know sounds can travel, and be deceiving....

I did strip her up to the throttle body, see if anything has loosen from all the vibration. But nothing... will check the headers from the exhaust also tomorrow to see if any air is leaking.

Come to think of it, it us almost the same sound as if air/compression is escaping from the exhaust manifold.

Wild assembly the most important parts, and take it out tomorrow to make sure about the sound. And put my ear to a warm engine, lol.

Yes, she is not pulling like a 1000 should pull.
Coming from 3 Honda Cbr1000rr's.

When gearing down from 5th to 3rd, and then opening the throttle, she is responding late.

Apologies for being so vague, That's is why I am asking.... What is the beginning stages of a cam chain failure....

Blessings.

 

[Twistedsocal13]

I mean I have never actually had a cam chain failure and have run a zx10r for over 50k miles hard...if you hear what sounds like compression or popping or kinda air popping but not backfires coming out the intake it is very possible that is happening, forgive me for not going back and reading again but is it flashed? Has any internal work been done. And from what I understand, the cam chain can get loose and then jump a tooth which would give you that sound out the intake deal, all you gotta do it pull the valve cover and check the cam degrees, it's pretty straight forward to make sure they are at factory settings bad there are marks on the cam gears...the chain tensioner can be reset easily enough too. I would probably advocate for resetting the tensioner and or shimming it first before jumping the gun and getting deeper into it. Keep it simple ya know.

 

[Twistedsocal13]

I was running on 300V for about 5000km.
Did the oil change yesterday, oil was dirty but no fine metal shavings etc...
I have a full system Yoshi on, and she does make a lot of noise, so also a bit hard to hear when the "grrrrrr sound" comes on. She is really loud, so when the technician took her for a drive I am sure he opened her up, because I could hear him from far, and know the sound of my bike. He was pushing her to hear anything, should have treated her gently, to try to make out about the sound, so yeah, all he heard was the full system Yoshi.
And his ego on my girl.

I will say thou, that when I am driving, I can hear the sound from sitting up straight, and sounds like it is coming from underneath the petrol tank, I know sounds can travel, and be deceiving....

I did strip her up to the throttle body, see if anything has loosen from all the vibration. But nothing... will check the headers from the exhaust also tomorrow to see if any air is leaking.

Come to think of it, it us almost the same sound as if air/compression is escaping from the exhaust manifold.

Wild assembly the most important parts, and take it out tomorrow to make sure about the sound. And put my ear to a warm engine, lol.

Yes, she is not pulling like a 1000 should pull.
Coming from 3 Honda Cbr1000rr's.

When gearing down from 5th to 3rd, and then opening the throttle, she is responding late.

Apologies for being so vague, That's is why I am asking.... What is the beginning stages of a cam chain failure....

Blessings.

Also, if you have the rpm above 7k this bike should make a Cbr feel tame. They are fast but the pull is far more linear and they feel much more planted under power or speed. The ZX is a much more fierce ride when wot imo

 

[SkyDork]

Welcome!

The sound could be from the camchain. That's typical. That will sound like a can of marbles rattling around in it. If the exhaust is leaking anywhere, it will be more of a whistling sound usually.

The camchain tensioner doesn't fail, it just fails to extend correctly all the time. That causes the chain to rattle. It's typical. The tensioner is a spring loaded, non-return, ratcheting tensioner. They can't retract once the next notch is made. The spring weakens over time and unless the camchain is really loose to allow the tensioner to extend, it rattles in between the tensioner notches.

No, I would say it hasn't failed and it won't fail like has been told to you. It's just not explained right. If it's rattling and causing noise, then the tensioner should be removed and reset and the force on the spring verified. A shop will try to sell you a new one, and that's fine. If you know what you're doing with it and it could be easily fixed with the one that's in there. Too much tension on the camchain can stress the crank and valve train. Not enough tension and it can jump a tooth on the sprocket and the engine won't run and can be damaged.

There's no way you revved it up to 15,000 RPM. The rev limiter kicks in at just over 14,000 to stop that. And revving it up that high in neutral with the engine unloaded can severely damage it. You should never do that again. There is no reason to ever do that.

 

[Norman]

Welcome!

The sound could be from the camchain. That's typical. That will sound like a can of marbles rattling around in it. If the exhaust is leaking anywhere, it will be more of a whistling sound usually.

The camchain tensioner doesn't fail, it just fails to extend correctly all the time. That causes the chain to rattle. It's typical. The tensioner is a spring loaded, non-return, ratcheting tensioner. They can't retract once the next notch is made. The spring weakens over time and unless the camchain is really loose to allow the tensioner to extend, it rattles in between the tensioner notches.

No, I would say it hasn't failed and it won't fail like has been told to you. It's just not explained right. If it's rattling and causing noise, then the tensioner should be removed and reset and the force on the spring verified. A shop will try to sell you a new one, and that's fine. If you know what you're doing with it and it could be easily fixed with the one that's in there. Too much tension on the camchain can stress the crank and valve train. Not enough tension and it can jump a tooth on the sprocket and the engine won't run and can be damaged.

There's no way you revved it up to 15,000 RPM. The rev limiter kicks in at just over 14,000 to stop that. And revving it up that high in neutral with the engine unloaded can severely damage it. You should never do that again. There is no reason to ever do that.

Good morning.

Thank you for your input and experience!
Yeah, I agree! The technicians are explaining it in terms to me, that I would get a panic, and try to sell me hours of labour, because of motorcycle workshops shops not doing so well these days! "Business wise"

And lately there are only like one technician currently employed at these workshops, so you only get one person opinion.

Will keep the diagnostic simple, and try all the small things firts that may be the problem, and eliminate one by one.

I do think because it was a racebike, that to many non manual changes has been meed to the bike, my Kawa is in perfect condition!

But everything from the quick shifter, and I barely use the quick shifter, to everything els has been made and fitted for track racing, think the bike went out of sinc, with me also changing it back to original.

I also did find 3-4ml of petrol in the air box yesterday while looking for loose components.

Is this normal for a kawasaki?
Thank you.

 

[Norman]

Also, if you have the rpm above 7k this bike should make a Cbr feel tame. They are fast but the pull is far more linear and they feel much more planted under power or speed. The ZX is a much more fierce ride when wot imo

I also did find 3-4ml of petrol in the air box yesterday while looking for loose components.
Took a syringe to measure the amount of fluid.

 

[Twistedsocal13]

You found gas in your airbox? As far as I know, no that's not normal..at least not from my experience...I could be wrong, anyone else care to chime in on that? I know that the upper injectors are in the air box but idk about having fuel in the bottom of the box, that sounds like it could end up leading to a fire in the air box..is the drain hole plugged in the bottom of the box?

 

[Norman]

You found gas in your airbox? As far as I know, no that's not normal..at least not from my experience...I could be wrong, anyone else care to chime in on that? I know that the upper injectors are in the air box but idk about having fuel in the bottom of the box, that sounds like it could end up leading to a fire in the air box..is the drain hole plugged in the bottom of the box?

Hey Twistedsocal13.
Yeah, I also was surprised, no... read up a bit. Definitely not normal, was petrol and oil mix.

It was plugged.😢
Was so concerned about the noise, that I forgot about everything else.
Did now new.
Oil change.
Oil filter.
New chain and original sprockets.
Nee fork seals, and dust covers on the forks.
New tires.

Next week:
New Cam Chain.
New Tensioner.
Shims.
Plugs.
I did order a new cam chain, and tensioner, and the shims, and the plugs.
Hopefully in 4-7 days the kawasaki workshop will have the parts.
So more or less 2 weeks without the bike.
Yeah, it is costly! But when it is done, I know I don't have to stress about it anymore, every time I get on the bike now, the cam chain and tensioner is running in my mind. That being said, I can't enjoy the ride, knowing in the back of my mind that it could perhaps be as they said... Not enjoying the fact that my kawasaki is a flu....

While doing the shims, told them to have a look around to see if anything is out of place. Feeling paranoid at this moment, about the high rev without the load I did a few months ago. So yeah, I will keep you posted on the workshop findings in two weeks. I am sure posting it here will help others with a diagnosis.

Thanks a million for all the help!!!
Speak soon on the findings.
Richest of blessings

 

[Twistedsocal13]

So chances are the one time you free reved the bike isn't gonna cause damage but legit don't do it again...you getting your valves done? With all the money your spending I wonder how many miles you have on the bike and if it's still under warranty.

 

[Norman]

So chances are the one time you free reved the bike isn't gonna cause damage but legit don't do it again...you getting your valves done? With all the money your spending I wonder how many miles you have on the bike and if it's still under warranty.

No warranty, ship has sales a two years ago.
9196 miles.
Yeah, getting the valves done as well, was part of the original diagnosis.
Yeah, costing a pretty penny... Hopefully she sounds like her old healthy self after this.

 

[Brainsucka]

If your bike was track bike with ,as you said, 4k Km, your cam chain is worn out, they take a lot of punishment on the track, I had to replace mine after 15K km.
Chain tensioner will help till worn limit, once it is full extended you get the noise.
Download service manual, there is procedure how to check tensioner and what is max limit of extension.

 

[Norman]

If your bike was track bike with ,as you said, 4k Km, your cam chain is worn out, they take a lot of punishment on the track, I had to replace mine after 15K km.
Chain tensioner will help till worn limit, once it is full extended you get the noise.
Download service manual, there is procedure how to check tensioner and what is max limit of extension.

Hello Brainsucka

Thank you for the share of experience.
Yeah, will see in two weeks how she runs with the new chain and tensioner, and shims.
Blessings.

 

[trebor27]

A lot of folks have a buzz noise from around the headstock. Something rattles there if I remember correctly, are you sure it isn’t this?

 

[Norman]

No warranty, ship has sales a two years ago.
9196 miles.
Yeah, getting the valves done as well, was part of the original diagnosis.
Yeah, costing a pretty penny... Hopefully she sounds like her old healthy self after this.

Hello Twistedsocal13
Got the Kawasaki back:

Aperently they say it was my cam chain, and tensioner, the tensioner push out but not back. Cam chain was worn.
More a whistle noise now, than the ggggrrrrr, ratle, etc...


Chim clearance/New Chims
New plugs.
New cam chain.
New cam chain tensioner.
New plugs.
New Air filter.

Thank you for all the help.
Richest of blessings.

 

[Norman]

A lot of folks have a buzz noise from around the headstock. Something rattles there if I remember correctly, are you sure it isn’t this?

Got the Kawasaki back:

Aperently they say it was my cam chain, and tensioner, the tensioner push out but not back. Cam chain all worn.


Chim clearance/New Chims
New plugs.
New cam chain.
New cam chain tensioner.
New plugs.
New Air filter.

Thank you for all the help.
Richest of blessings.

 

[Norman]

Hello Brainsucka

Thank you for the share of experience.
Yeah, will see in two weeks how she runs with the new chain and tensioner, and shims.
Blessings.

Got the Kawasaki back:

Aperently they say it was my cam chain, and tensioner, the tensioner push out but not back. Cam chain all worn.


Chim clearance/New Chims
New plugs.
New cam chain.
New cam chain tensioner.
New plugs.
New Air filter.

Thank you for all the help.
Richest of blessings.