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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello fellow Sport bikers.

I am in the process of replacing rod and main bearings, and came across an ordering issue.

Their are three different bearing thicknesses to order, and the manual describes marks to determine what you currently have.

I was talking with a mechanic earlier, and he said some racers might run thinner bearings for looser tolerances? I talked with another, and he said run the center size. Explaining Kawasaki has three part numbers, but they could all be anything respectively. Not exact manufacturing tolerances...

Crankshaft Main Bearing Insert Thickness: (Engine No. ∼ ZX600PE008560)
Brown: 1.491~1.495mm Part # 92139-0191 Journal 1,2,3,4
Black: 1.495 ∼ 1.499 mm Part # 92139-0190 Journal 1,2,3,4
Blue: 1.499 ∼ 1.503 mm Part # 92139-0189 Journal 1,2,3,4
*: The bearing inserts for Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 journals have an oil groove, respectively.


Crankshaft Main Bearing Insert Selection: (Engine No. ZX600PE008561 ∼)
Brown: 1.491~1.495mm Part # 92139-0191 Journal 1,2,4
Black: 1.495 ∼ 1.499 mm Part # 92139-0190 Journal 1,2,4
Blue: 1.499 ∼ 1.503 mm Part # 92139-0189 Journal 1,2,4
*: The bearing inserts for Nos. 1, 2 and 4 journals have an oil groove, respectively.

I'm a little confused about the Marks to determine selection?
Crankcase Main Bearing inside Diameter Marking? O / None
Crankshaft Main Journal Diameter marking? 1 / None

Are there any marks on the bearings that determine part#.. the blue/black/brown paint is worn off!

Main bearing with oil groove: 92139 f~H
I see D6L and a circle with a inner circle with horizontal line inside.
I don't have my bike with me, so I will go back to shop later today to see.

Anywho.. any info would be appreciated.


Marcel
 

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Hey Marcel, fellow Canadian roadracer here (although I stay with regionals on my vintage FZR400 - RACE/SOAR #64)

There are not size marks on the bearings other than the paint marks. But, if you measure the thickness (and you have instruments that are accurate enough) you can tell which ones you have. I've never concerned myself much with the marks on the bearings in an existing engine. Main and rod bearings are an "always replace" item for me.

The shop manual explains where the marks are supposed to be on the crank and rods. If you want a slightly looser engine, I would be tempted to find out which one you are supposed to use based on the markings, and then go to the next looser (thinner) size on the main bearings. I'd stay with recommended size on the rod bearings because normally those have a looser oil clearance anyway.

The total range between the thinnest "brown" and the thickest "blue" at the outside limit of their tolerance ranges is still less than normal oil clearance anyway. This is why people can get away with always using the middle one, or making a mistake when putting the engine together ...

At least Kawasaki tells you what the size markings mean so that you can re-figure things if you have a re-ground crank or something of that sort. Yamaha just gives you the colour codes and doesn't tell you how they relate to the tolerance zones ...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Marcel, fellow Canadian roadracer here (although I stay with regionals on my vintage FZR400 - RACE/SOAR #64)

There are not size marks on the bearings other than the paint marks. But, if you measure the thickness (and you have instruments that are accurate enough) you can tell which ones you have. I've never concerned myself much with the marks on the bearings in an existing engine. Main and rod bearings are an "always replace" item for me.

The shop manual explains where the marks are supposed to be on the crank and rods. If you want a slightly looser engine, I would be tempted to find out which one you are supposed to use based on the markings, and then go to the next looser (thinner) size on the main bearings. I'd stay with recommended size on the rod bearings because normally those have a looser oil clearance anyway.

The total range between the thinnest "brown" and the thickest "blue" at the outside limit of their tolerance ranges is still less than normal oil clearance anyway. This is why people can get away with always using the middle one, or making a mistake when putting the engine together ...

At least Kawasaki tells you what the size markings mean so that you can re-figure things if you have a re-ground crank or something of that sort. Yamaha just gives you the colour codes and doesn't tell you how they relate to the tolerance zones ...
Thanks for the info Gofaster. I am about to drive to shop to check out the marks on the rods and bearings. Then measure the CrankPin diameter, along with journals and bearing thickness with a plastigage.

"If the clearance is between 0.082 mm (0.0032 in.) and the service limit (0.12 mm, 0.0047 in.), replace the bearing inserts [A] with inserts painted blue . Check insert/ crankpin clearance with the plastigage. The clearance
may exceed the standard slightly, but it must not be less than the minimum in order to avoid bearing seizure.

The manual also says.. You must replace the Rod nuts, as they stretch to fit.. and it recommends replacing the rod bolts too.

Usable Range of Connecting Rod Bolt Stretch
0.28 ∼ 0.38 mm (0.0110 ∼ 0.0150 in.)
 

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0.004mm difference between the adjacent thicknesses is a little less than 0.0002" so that's about right. A good micrometer should have the markings to let you read it to 0.0001" - mine does.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
You are correct Mr. GoFaster, as always.

irnieracing,

You must have a ball bearing micrometer that is designed to measure curved surfaces, AND is accurate to .0001" or 1 ten thousand of an inch to measure those shells if the paint marking is gone.

Generally those bearing shells I find to be only .0002 difference in thickness, and that is 2 ten/ thousand of an inch, not .002,

Most micrometers only measure down to 3 decimal places, or .001.

I usually just use the BLACK shells in the connecting rods, and the BLUE shells on the main. And after measuring they usually are perfect at about .002" of total crush clearance. If you gotta guess, thats the best combo to guess and use.

On another note, it is good to see people trying to learn how to work on the more complex parts of their bikes. Even the best engine builders ever were at this same stage at 1 point in their life. They weren't born with the knowledge.
Thanks Mavis.

I was certainly afraid to refresh my 2008 zx6r motor. My 2005 was so simple, as we changed the pistons and rings in the frame. The 2008 zx6r requires complete disassemble of the motor. I couldn't believe we had to remove the clutch, and transmission assembly before the case would split.. :bs:

Aluminum Clutch basket has slight grooves too, but dragging is not much of an issue with racing. I would be more worried about slipping.

I wish I had a ball bearing micrometer. The digital one couldn't even replicate the Kawi. manual measurements.. haha I ordered the black sets (medium thickness) for both rods and crank, as we found one bearing with black paint visible. The crank and rods had no visible Marks or '0's.

I considered going with the Blue crank bearings, but the only bearing with black paint was for the crank. So I figured go same same as before.. since everything worked fine.

I will break-in the motor once again with AMSOIL 10w40 Synthetic. AMSOIL is the only Synthetic recommended for initial break-in. Not to mention one of the few chemically derived synthetics available today.
I used AMSOIL with my 2005zx6rr for break-in and it worked awesome..
Bike now has 120rwph on pump gas. I love my 2005zx6rr... such a great bike, with way more torque then my 2008zx6r. Not to mention 28 lbs lighter. 2005zx6rr= 352lbs with 1/4 tank of fuel
 

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Discussion Starter #7
To date there is only 1 thing I don't like about my 08 ZX10R. And that is what you are describing above. The cylinder block is part of the upper crankcase half, thus the entire motor has to be taken apart to work on pistons, like you pointed out.

Even Honda went away from that on their 08 1KRR and went back to having a separate cylinder block.
yah! what were they thinking?

I love my 05 ex factory bike.. (Tom Kipp's)
























 

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It looks alot like the 04-05 zx10r engine :

Crankcase Main Bearing inside Diameter Marking? O / None
This is located on the upper crankcase (left) where the | | | | lines are.

Crankshaft Main Journal Diameter marking? 1 / None
This is shown with the red arrow at the beginning of the crankshaft.
The cankpin diameter is shown with the green arrows in the picture.



The conrod big end diameter mark is on the side of the conrods (O or no mark).

If you have the manual you can determine what bearings you have and just replace them. You can measure them with a plasticgauge just to be sure you are in specs.

Always change the conrod bolts and nuts. Another way to tighten them
 

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Looks kinda like my shop right now ... engine parts everywhere. My toolbox isn't as big, though.

I hate the design with the cylinder block together with upper crankcase, too, but it seems like every engine has its own headaches. On the Yamaha FZR engines, it uses a separate cylinder block so it's fairly easy to do the top end, but you have to disassemble the top end to get to the bottom end ... and only because of TWO BOLTS that they put underneath the cylinder block so the cylinder block has to come off before you can get them out. If it weren't for those two bolts, you could service the bottom-end separately from the top-end without having to take apart the top end (and put in new gaskets and rings)!
 

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I only ever do it with plenty of oil in the ring grooves. I know that there is a school of thought that if you do it dry, supposedly the rings will seat faster, but I don't subscribe to it. The moment the engine has oil pressure after starting, there is going to be oil everywhere anyhow.

One other small thing that I always do, although it's not always possible (depends how your oil pump is driven). I hold off installing the clutch basket and the water pump (driven off the oil pump shaft in my case) until everything else in the engine is back together, then I put a litre of oil in the crankcase and spin the oil pump by hand until I get oil pressure. This primes the pump and fills up the oil filter and all the passageways so that there will be oil pressure the moment the engine cranks. You're always supposed to do this when you build a Chevrolet V8, so why not do it with the bike engine, if the design of the engine will let you do it.
 

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And I betcha your engines put together your way, and my engines put together my way, both run fine.
 
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