[Melampus]

First, a thank you in advance for any input here. I haven't been around long, but I frequent the site to educate myself on my 2004 & I do appreciate the perspective.

Long & the short: After my CR125, I've been on street bikes since I got my motorcycle license @15 years-old. Started out on a YSR-50 which is even funnier as I'm 6'1". I've had about 15 bikes since from every manufacturer. Team Green I've had two '03 ZX-6RR's, and I'm now on my 2004 ZX-10R. I had been off bikes for a decade as, on 12.14.2005, a 77 year-old lady was driving her car the wrong way down a one-way street which I realized after being run into after rounding a blind corner on a beautifully bright sunny day. I never thought it could happen. I could drag pegs on interstate entrance/exit ramps; I could do standup balance-points for miles; I could do 200' stoppies; I could always - for 15 years at that point - out accelerate, out brake, out maneuver any accident, but then it happened. Make a choice... lowside & go under the car, or highside & go flying. I chose the latter, flew 75', landed on my helmet, and ended up with a subarachnoid brain hemorrhage (+) that left me in a coma on a respirator for a week. Anyhow, I made it out alive, and got the itch again about a year ago.

So now here I am @41. I found a lightly beat up 1st Gen for sale, negotiated it for $2800, and committed to reviving her. Honestly, I've got her in pretty good shape. Replaced all broken plastic (not painted, yet); replaced a cracked ram air tube, replaced a headlight assembly (stock had 3 broken tabs), added a slip-on (it was open at the downpipe), replaced a leaking fuel tank, added a GPR damper, replaced front pads, flushed DOT4 through the front master, Engine Ice radiator flush, synthetic oil change, replaced clutch & torn clutch cable (had barnett style double plate system that was like pulling open pitbull jaws), and added blinkers (haven't got working, yet). I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but that's the gist of it.

After all this, she felt great - surprisingly great, but the brakes went from great to garbage in two rides. I accepted the front master is tired, and I started my research here. I have now committed to replacing the front master, first, before replacing the calipers once I can save up some money. Here in lies my question as I see the sticky on this topic was written in 2008 with the following as direct swaps:

* 2006/2007 OEM ZX-14 Nissin [Front] Calipers
* 2007 OEM ZX-6R Nissin [Front] Calipers
* Late model R1 [Front] Calipers

As it is now 2018 & I'd prefer to upgrade with fresher hardware if possible, here in lies my question. Does anyone here know, unequivocally, what the up-to-date (models & model years) direct swap hardware is? I've done my due diligence with the search feature here, but I'm surprised it doesn't really work that well. I see the ZX-14 front caliper reference, but I'm not sure how late a model I can now use in 2018. I see people talking about Brembo calipers off a GSXR-1000, but I can't pin down what years. Furthermore - on Gixxers, I've seen some Nissin but then some Brembo binders on stock Gixxers in eBay so that's confusing. I've read about late model R1 front master cylinders working, but I can't pin down what years. And just like the Zukes, I've seen stock binders that weren't Brembos on eBay. Furthermore, on the Zukes & Yami units, do the MC brake switch plugs retain connectivity to our Kawi's?

I sure am hoping someone here willing to share has the answers to the above questions. Hope even more you don't mind taking the time to answer me.

Either way, thanks again! atriot:

 

[SkyDork]

Phew, what a read that is! Glad to hear you don't have any lasting issues after that sort of history. :ayyy:

On to the topic at hand. It's been covered pretty extensively over the last decade since it started with the Gen 2 in 2006. So I'll give you the same answer that's been posted before.

NISSIN!!! Period.

:lol: You can try to reinvent the wheel if you want to, but for the time and effort, the Nissins are the easiest. You need to not worry so much about the MC since that's a completely separate piece that can be mated to the calipers you choose. The Gen 1/2 MC is not the issue, it's the crappy calipers. Rebuilt, freshened up, new fluid, new MC, still the same result - brakes are mush. So just get straight to the calipers and call it done!

The Nissins are the same for every year on the ZX-14. Same with the Concours. Same with the ZX-6R, up until the most recent models. The calipers are all the same, it's the brake pads that are specific to the model and what makes them different.

Nissin front calipers:
2006-2018 Ninja ZX-14R
2008-2018 Concours 14
2007-2012 Ninja ZX-6R

 

[teror1sta]

I run Nissins set from zx6r with steel hoses , ferodo HH 2220 pads, 660 RBF . Great upgrade. BUT on the track after 5-6 laps i feel little fade . Now order 320mm oversize disc brakes.

 

[Melampus]

Thank you, SKYDORK & TEROR1STA. I really appreciate the help.

 

[Melampus]

SKYDORK <> I forgot to ask if I still use my pads in all of those those calipers?

 

[michael4012]

Make sure they're non ABS calipers ZZR14 have a ABS option in later years. The pads from yours will not fit any if the Nissen calipers, but good pads it would be a let down to swap calipers then throw in shite pads.

 

[SkyDork]

SKYDORK <> I forgot to ask if I still use my pads in all of those those calipers?

Yeah michael4012 is correct about the pads, but wrong on the ABS. The pads need to be specific to the Nissin calipers. You can't reuse the pads from the Tokico calipers since they won't fit in the Nissins. The OEM stock pads for the Nissons on the ZX-14 are quite good. Or you can get a quality aftermarket set to use (Vesrah).



The ABS models don't have anything to do with the calipers. The calipers themselves are all the same. The ABS module is separate as are the hardlines associated with it. The calipers don't apply so it won't matter which you get and ABS is irrelevant to that.

 

[Melampus]

MICHAEL & SKY <> Thank you both for your input. It’s really immensely helpful to an amateur wrench like me who’s on as tight a budget as I am. It takes me just way too long to do things... let alone twice, and I have no budget to make mistakes.

The calipers are all the same, it's the brake pads that are specific to the model and what makes them different.

SKY <> So I understand my Tokico pads won’t fit the Nissin’s, but I’m still unclear as to which pads to purchase. If I hypothetically purchased 2012 ZX-14 calipers, I would have to purchase ‘12 ZX-14 pads & they would fit my ‘04 10R? Same question applies to any of the Concours or the 6; just purchase pads for the matching model & I’m good?

 

[SkyDork]

SKY <> So I understand my Tokico pads won’t fit the Nissin’s, but I’m still unclear as to which pads to purchase. If I hypothetically purchased 2012 ZX-14 calipers, I would have to purchase ‘12 ZX-14 pads & they would fit my ‘04 10R? Same question applies to any of the Concours or the 6; just purchase pads for the matching model & I’m good?

OK, I'll try to explain it a little bit better.

The calipers are the same for the ZX-14, the ZX-6R, and the Concours for those years. The pads are the difference there. They are physically all the same size and will fit, it's the friction compound that is different. The Concours is a heavier touring bike, so the pads will have less friction and last longer. The ZX-6R is a lightweight, high performance machine so the pads will be higher friction point with more wear. The ZX-14 is a heavy sport model, so the pads will be decent friction with improved wear to account for more force needed.

You don't match the pads to the model of the bike like you're describing. If you get ZX-6R calipers, throw some ZX-14 pads in it. If you get ZX-14 calipers, throw some Concours pads or ZX-6 pads in it. You could get ZX-14 calipers and put the ZX-6R pads in them or some Vesrah RJL pads for a ZX-14. The pads will determine the way they feel and respond and the compound of them changes the part numbers. Since the ZX-10R is in between all of those things in terms of weight, you'll just have to pick one and try them. They all fit and will all work across the board. Doesn't matter what you choose, since they will all be way better than what you have now.

You buy the pads to match the type of caliper, not worry about whether they will fit a ZX-10R. We've already determined the calipers will bolt up to the ZX-10R, so the pads fitting are not a concern. Get the pads to patch the caliper, and then match the caliper to the bike. I had ZX-14 Nissins with OEM ZX-14 pads...top notch!

 

[Melampus]

SKYD <> Man, you're great. Much gratitude to you!

Alright, I had only budgeted for a used Gen-4 ZX-10R MC w/reservoir & lever, but now I'm going to put that on hold. New plan is to save up the extra money for & search out ZX-14 Nissin calipers off the latest model available. Then purchase new OEM ZX-14 pads as I've always been a fan of OEM pads on the street, and at 270#, I think my body makes up for the extra weight between the 10R & 14R. :wink2:

Of course, I just though of, yet, another question. How do you feel about the ZX-14R MC, or again, the MC is inconsequential? If I were to find a whole set like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-07-08-09-10-11-NINJA-ZX14-ZX14R-FRONT-BRAKE-CALIPERS-W-MASTER-CYLINDER-SET/263768583280?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D709c26e5988f4300832c5e98e21bc26a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D253827769967%26itm%3D263768583280&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
...is it, in your opinion, a step up over the stock Gen 1 MC; at the very least, is it considered equal in performance? One of my main concerns in the MC is acquiring one with a bleed nipple like the newer 10R's. Bleeding out all the air in my OEM First Gen is a bitch.

 

[SkyDork]

SKYD <> Man, you're great. Much gratitude to you!

Alright, I had only budgeted for a used Gen-4 ZX-10R MC w/reservoir & lever, but now I'm going to put that on hold. New plan is to save up the extra money for & search out ZX-14 Nissin calipers off the latest model available. Then purchase new OEM ZX-14 pads as I've always been a fan of OEM pads on the street, and at 270#, I think my body makes up for the extra weight between the 10R & 14R. :wink2:

Of course, I just though of, yet, another question. How do you feel about the ZX-14R MC, or again, the MC is inconsequential? If I were to find a whole set like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-07-08-0...m=263768583280&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
...is it, in your opinion, a step up over the stock Gen 1 MC; at the very least, is it considered equal in performance? One of my main concerns in the MC is acquiring one with a bleed nipple like the newer 10R's. Bleeding out all the air in my OEM First Gen is a bitch.

Well, I can't argue that the Gen 1 MC is overall equal in performance. There are advantages to it and an improvement overall to the Gen 1 MC. It comes down to what you're trying to achieve in upgrading the Gen 1 brakes. My opinion would be that the Nissin calipers will be a drastic improvement over the Gen 1 brakes even mated to the stock MC. All things considered, the ZX-14 MC to match the calipers would improve it more. By far the biggest, most notable improvement will come from the caliper swap. There are minor improvements from that point. With you being "on a budget", the MC swap alone won't gain you much and the money is better spent upgrading the calipers which is what I would suggest. If you can do the whole thing, then that's the best way to go.



Bleeding the brakes isn't hard. The technique for doing it is probably what's causing you issues. I won't go into all that, but the bleed nipple on a newer MC doesn't necessarily solve those issues and has it's own. It's just different. The radial piston set up of it is a performance upgrade from the old axial ones. That should be the reason to upgrade, not because it will be easier to bleed or not. :wink:

 

[teror1sta]

Melampus , my set was 120$ : calipers + MC + steel hoses .

One suggestion : good shape caliper with new sintered brake pads.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-07-08...ash=item4b4bf764d6:g:pygAAOSwhuRbc06u&vxp=mtr

 

[michael4012]

Thanks Skydork, i pulled the trigger too early im not even going too try to explain how i got that wrong :crackup: Correct the calipers are indifferent to being ABS or not!

 

[SkyDork]

Thanks Skydork, i pulled the trigger too early im not even going too try to explain how i got that wrong :crackup: Correct the calipers are indifferent to being ABS or not!

:crackup: No problem bud! I figured it was just a bit of a blunder. No explanation needed. I should've just edited your post to correct it. :wink: :lol:

 

[ZX10]

In 2018 going on 2019, there are a lot more options to explore if one is inclined and willing. 2014 now was 5 years ago and newer used stuff is now more easily available because it is older especially when on a budget. It's easier to follow tried and tested but sometimes tired and tested when followed can't satisfy even when there is a history of satisfaction of the majority who tired. Better pads, lines, fluid was more satisfactory to me then a swap to ZX14 calipers with stock pads. In my opinion if you are looking for better control then you must upgrade the master cylinder.

 

[Melampus]

SKY D <> Again, many thanks.

TEROR <> Nice to rub it in. :biggrin: $120 for MC, calipers & SS hoses is a STEAL! I've been watching eBay for many weeks, and Gen 3/Gen 4 ZX-10R MC's w/lever & reservoir average $85. Calipers from ZX-6 or 14 average $100, and that typically has no hoses - if so, definitely not SS.

With regard to aftermarket pads on the street, I've honestly, never liked them over OEM pads due to warmup & wet weather performance. It always seemed like the EBC's (HH) & SBS (?) I tried years ago were temperamental on the street & were horribly inconsistent in the rain. Admittedly, I haven't tried new pads since 2005, but it seems it might be a truism which would still apply today. Your thoughts?

ZX10 <> Kudos to you for snagging that name in Jan. '16! I mean WOW!

Thank you for all your input, and as for your 2014 comment, I'm upgrading my 2004/10R so calipers off a 2014/14R would have seals that are a decade newer. I'm good with that! :wink2: Furthermore, I'll buy the latest model equipment available once I've funded the parts kitty. I hawk eBay everyday, numerous times a day, and you don't often see much available, in this arena, newer than '15. On the 6R calipers, I can't go any later than 2012 anyhow due to fitment.

With regard to your MC comment, my ultimate goal is a Gen 4-10R MC with 14R calipers & 14R OEM pads. Only thing that might alter that is if I find an entire 14R system including MC/calipers/hoses. In that case, I've been informed above that not only will the 14R MC mate properly to my '04/10R clip-ons, but it will improve upon my 14 year-old OEM MC's performance. I had just flushed & bled a whole bottle of Bel Ray Super DOT4 through my '04/10R OEM MC, and put brand new OEM pads in the OEM Tokicos, and it felt stiff as a board with great feel & stopping power on the street... for a day. Second day, the lever would go to the clip-on, and it just feels like mush with noticeably decreased stopping power. I'm extremely rusty in the seat, I've got an additional 50# on my body to contend with, & as such, I'm a fraction of the rider I was when I got off bikes a decade ago, but I'm still capable of entering our South Florida freeway entrance ramps, exit ramps, and interchanges at or decelerating from triple digit speeds so I use my brakes. I need typical hyperbike stopping power with linear engagement properties, and fade free performance in the South Florida heat. Honestly, it's not a lot to ask for, but when I do this I want to get my best bang for the buck as I am on an extremely tight budget. I can only buy the upgrade hardware once, and I can't run into any fitment issues as I am not really capable of fabrication work & I can't buy a second set of upgrade hardware if the first wasn't right. Plus, I can't leave my bike disabled as it is my main transportation. I have a truck, but she's tired @240,000 miles with cam chain tensioners that whine like a baby so I try to use her as least as possible. I'm just a regular un[der]employed guy with basic mechanical ability that feels safer knowing I did it carefully rather than some junior tech rushing through it because he wants to go home & plow his new girlfriend. I know my way around a wrench, I just have to work deliberately & methodically which ultimately means slowly.

 

[ZX10]

Thanks, I guess no one thought of a handle without the arrrr but I won't go there cuz I don't want to date myself. You say your lever is going mushy but there is only one way for that to happen, its either taking air or air in the system wasn't completely eliminated to begin with and there is still dirty fluid and carp in the system. At 14 years old I think the brake lines need a break too :grin2: . Look at the picture below and figure it out. Can be made for a couple of bucks or free in my case. The other end goes on the bleeder nipple. There is more then one way to skin a cat.

 

[teror1sta]

SKY D <> Again, many thanks.

TEROR <> Nice to rub it in. :biggrin: $120 for MC, calipers & SS hoses is a STEAL! I've been watching eBay for many weeks, and Gen 3/Gen 4 ZX-10R MC's w/lever & reservoir average $85. Calipers from ZX-6 or 14 average $100, and that typically has no hoses - if so, definitely not SS.

With regard to aftermarket pads on the street, I've honestly, never liked them over OEM pads due to warmup & wet weather performance. It always seemed like the EBC's (HH) & SBS (?) I tried years ago were temperamental on the street & were horribly inconsistent in the rain. Admittedly, I haven't tried new pads since 2005, but it seems it might be a truism which would still apply today. Your thoughts?

When I saw this list i click "buy it now" immediately :grin2:

I use ОNLY sintered pads on my bike and bicycle (DH) . Always same performance , and much better from organic . I drive a race car same thing: use Ferodo Racing DS3000 pads. Even cold have brutal bite .

 

[Melampus]

>> nissin <<

UPDATE: Hell yeah! I've been sitting on a new (to me) ZX-14R MC w/lever & reservoir, ZX-14R Calipers w/stock lines for about a week now patiently waiting for my new ZX-6R pads to arrive in the mail, and that day has come!:clap: Project to ensue very soon, and I can't f-ing wait!>

ZX-10 <> I got one of those one-way check valves run on tubing that allows me to bleed pretty easily. They simply go to mush in one day.

 

[Melampus]

>> hell yeah !!! <<

Oh my f-king god what a difference! >
I mean holy Shiite! >

Now that's what I'm talking about! :rockwoot::rockwoot::rockwoot:

Thanks again for all the help! ccasion1