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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-13-2019 07:11 AM
Laczi I have a spine/disc problem so lately I didn't spent much time with the bike (riding isn't recommended by the doc, nor that much fun with half numb leg and foot).
This just a report back:

As I said the O2 eliminators solved the stumbling and rpm limiting issue, but some lesser problem stayed in the transition between steady throttle and acceleration, which could be lessen or negated with adjusting the TPS (main) idle voltage much higher than the manual specified 0,65 V (0,76 wasn't enough 0,8V fine), but that way cost fuel mileage.

As just one O2 sensor went bad I thought that I will use the good one and even split it's signal so the ECU will 'think' that everything is normal - that's failed, maybe the wire didn't worked or the ECU can sense the heating circuits individually, so I decided to use the O2 sensor as #1 O2 and one O2 eliminator as #2, and reset TPS voltage to 0,65V. (and while I was there I checked and adjusted secondary TPS voltage too which was less than the specified 0,77V it was only around 0,56V. To be able to check I had to disconnect the actuator so I could rotate the secondaries between open & closed positions). Thats two variables, so I couldn't say that this or that was the cause.
The result that the transition is fine, no more surging; at steady throttle it doesn't feel like the ECU leans out the mixture - off the throttle it does feel like that, but giving throttle doesn't cause abruptness. Will see the mileage, it only can be better with less TPS voltage.

If anyone needs to access the TPS sensors for his/her own responsibility, the easiest way I found:
remove the 2 small screws (per side) from the top of the side fairings (beside the fuel tank), and the top screws both sides of the side fairings that hold them to the frame, so the fairing can pulled away just enough to use an allen key (long) to loosen the throttle body assembly clamp bolts - after the tank was opened up (I prefer to hang it), and the airbox removed.
07-04-2019 09:49 AM
Laczi
ECU swap question: EU to non-O2 & non-immo

Hello,

My question is that if I get an ECU which doesn't have immobilizer & O2 function (if there's any), then I can use my current keys, or I should get / need keys paired to the ECU?

(seems like my issues can be solved only with new O2 sensors, which 'of course' the M12 threaded small ones, so they rare, and cost quite much money even from the cheapest place in EU - it isn't possible with woolich flash to disable O2 in the ECU)
06-17-2019 11:45 PM
Laczi Seems like 0,73 (~0.732) V TPS @ idle solved the on-off switch like cruise on a quick blast to my workplace in the morning, will see if it remains the same @ hotter, daytime temps. It also revs better at any rpm, so it should get more fuel because of that higher voltage.
(with 0,8V the exhaust tip / restrictor piece was sooty black, then before I set the TPS voltage lower I cleaned it and it stayed clean after ~400 kms, no black fingertip from it so it definitely makes some difference in AFR)
06-16-2019 12:42 PM
Laczi
fiddling with the TPS sensor idle voltage

Hello,

I don't want to open many threads, so I'll use this existing one.
The most informative page I have found is this.

As I suspected, the TPS sensor voltage is a modifier to the AFR: after having issues with the stock 0,65V adjustment I went to 0,8V which resulted lower fuel economy in commuting use @ almost 7 liters / 100 km. My last setting way 0,7V which resulted 5,25 liters / 100 km - but still had an on-off like characteristic with steady throttle or at light accel. It's like: when I start roll on the throttle, the ECU feels like substracting fuel first so the rpm stays at best or starts to drop, then suddenly the ECU senses that acceleration is needed and abruptly gives more fuel - then it will accepts throttle smootly. On the first few kilometers this only came at around 3500 rpm and above cruise rpm (acceleration was fine but felt a bit lean here & there) so I thought I let it be, but after a few hundred kils it came @ lower rpm too which make the in-town 6th cruise PITA). So for the next ride I will try 0,73V (idle) TPS voltage, maybe it will get both the spotless throttle response & the realistic fuel consumption too.

Of course I uphold the possibility that my sensor needs to be replaced, but it worked like it should @ 0,8V so first I play with the adjustment - I don't mind tinkering with the bike if it could get me somewhere.
06-10-2019 05:56 AM
Laczi Just a final 'report' for the stumble/hesitation issue around 4500 rpm with O2 FI code appear/disappear (the latter happened when the problem present).

Since the bike already had the O2 FI code when I bought it last autumn, I didn't expected O2 to be the cause of the problem arised in late (warmer) spring. After a few hundred kilometers without problems I think the O2 eliminator is the solution to this, non-O2 models don't have this problem - I think.

Because I also suspected the TPS sensor ( the service manual is useless for fault finding by symptoms as it list almost every sensor for most of the similar issues ) I removed and checked it too which not only the manual, but I also not recommend. Setting the TPS (main) sensor idle voltage to 0,8 V instead of the "0,65 V or slightly more" in the manual (and/or the O2 eliminators) resulted in higher fuel consumption & sooty pipe end (instead of tan brownish) and even if I put back the KLEEN / PAIR valve, the exhaust rarely popped, so I'll try it soon with 0,53 V idle TPS adjustment if the theory is correct. Which is that higher TPS voltage could result in richer AFR, and lower = leaner. I've tried to find data on the web on this but this is the only that worth to mention it. There's a chance to have idle and low rpm issues with this setting, but if I can get away with 0,12 V less voltage - as I got away with 0,25 V higher, then it will run just fine. If it will be okay , next ride's mileage will tell. (I'm only concerned about cruising mileage; my wrist movement & riding style efficient & steady enough I simply cannot accept 6,5 liters/100km for the same ride on which my buddy's gixxer L3 needs only 4,5-5 liters - we rarely did 6k rpm or above)

(Funny that I can adjust the TPS without disconnecting anything on the bike & then put it together within 45 minutes, I surely didn't wanted to learn that... :) )
06-10-2019 05:17 AM
Laczi I put in the O2 eliminators and wanted to refuel the bike - but the engine ran so shite, that it made me to get home. It misfired, ran like a thumper instead of an inline-4, etc below 3000 rpm, and had to adjust the idle higher.

Got home, took it apart, set the main tps ~ 0,8 V @ idle ( let the engine ran while I adjusted it: that was the highest value that didn't dropped the idle rpm: around 0,84 V the rpm dropped significantly; too low values like 0,34 V didn't caused noticeable issues but because most kawasaki manuals for other models contain higher idle TPS voltage values I decided to go as high as possible from the 0,65 V I set by the manual), also checked &adjusted the other tps (secondary), but only by the paint mark.
I really don't know why it started to run better - maybe the Long Term Fuel Trim or something like that amplified the problem until the O2 eliminator's false signal made the ECU to correct the stored values - because even when I disconnected the two tps the engine missed a bit from time to time @ idle .
Anyway, finally it idled fine so I put it together & went for a ride again.

The other test ride after the adjustment went very well, low rpm cruise was smooth, and after the refuel, the higher rpm cruise was also fine: no stumbling, no FI light. So if it stays good even on hotter days then the bad O2 sensors caused all this stumbling problems even when they were completely disconnected. It was sooo god to ride again @ any rpm.
06-07-2019 03:12 AM
Laczi A dynamometer tech said as tip, that he's sure that O2 can cause this stumbling/hesitation.
Since the manual states:
" The oxygen sensor #1 (plus the #2 too - Laczi) is active and sensor must send signals (output voltage) continuously to the ECU. "
+
"If the oxygen sensor #1 is not activated, the ECU stops feedback mode of the oxygen sensor #1 and #2."
I would think that it cannot cause problems (and also that I bought the bike with O2 FI code, and it worked flawlessly until spring got warmer), but I ordered 2 pieces of O2 eliminators, and will see if that's the solution.
06-01-2019 08:21 AM
Laczi Yep, that's a good price.


Now about my problem:
The symptom is now repeatable: when the engine rpm reaches a certain value (sometimes 4500 or just 4k rpm - it doesn't changes between the two one or another) or try to accelerate above, then depending on the throttle position (for example try to cruise at that rpm or trying to accelerate way above) it seems like the fuel delivery cuts out soft or hard until the rpm drops below. Not caused by the TPS sensors.


I suspected the main throttle position sensor - maybe worn that region - so I took both off (secondary too) to see if I can disassemble, check & clean it inside. (....) Long story short, I put back the sensors approx the same position with the factory paint marks. I think it wasn't precisely adjusted back, because at around 2200 rpm the engine got a bit gargling, but nothing serious issue came from my careless action. The stumbling at around 4k rpm was also there, just like last week. So I decided by the service manual's DFI self diag table, to disconnect both sensors and see how the ECU manages without their signal. (I had FI codes of both sensors & 67 which is O2 sensor heaters as the fuse still removed) Looked like a solution first, it worked flawless, a bit laggy acceleration compared to problem-free state, but very usable 200 km/h no problem. So refueled it and headed back home - then minddle on that 6 km trip the stumbling came back - also the disconnected O2 sensor's FI codes.
Left everything just like that and went for a (180 kilometers) ride with my buddy. The only new thing with the symptom that the bike wont recover after holding the throttle thru 3-4 stumbles just like as the ECU cannot know that the throttle plates open, so it won't deliver fuel again, until the rpm drops. (last weekend's ride showed that with TPS signal the ECU started to deliver fuel again after a few stumbles until the engine load was high, then it started the cycle again above 4500 rpm). So it still could be the ECU or the way it's programmed, not the TPS, but also could be a few other sensors...
It's like a cruel sentence, sitting on a rocket that's normally capable to do around 300 km/h, which only can go with 100 or 115 (60-70 MPH) 'till it's cut's back the fun...
05-30-2019 02:51 AM
michael4012 Actually i just saw these on ebay this probably a better way forward for you that price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-...AOSwOsdcwFA J
05-29-2019 04:39 AM
michael4012 im probably as far from Hungry in Rovinj, Croatia is a strange shape on the map, dictated by history of course, and yes im working. Back. to Antwerp on Friday, but i am thinking about ripping down to these parts on my bike August-September time
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