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TRE USERS..Gear Indicator…bad NEWS

4K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  robocop 
#1 ·
I installed the TRE this way…let me know if I did something wrong:

1. removed the Green wire with red stripe and black wire male connectors to the supplied connector and re-installed the OEM green connectors and the supplied connector to the TRE.

Result the TRE only displays Neutral. I was surprised it displayed anything as removing the male connector is removing “ALL GEAR VOLTAGES THE ECU RECIEVES FROM THE GEAR SWITCH” according to the schematic and voltage tests…but after other tests I found that the ECU always has 5volts and it appears Ivans TRE just fools it by a resistor to be in “NUETRAL GEAR”. Not 5th gear as most have thought by bringing the voltage down to 4.3volts witch is NUETRAL voltage. It is basically not giving any voltage to the ECU for any gear other than Nuetral.

So I know there will be a lot of questions I will try to answer most of them first to save some time.

1. How do you know the Green/red strip wire is the main Voltage line?

Answer…I confirmed with the bike off with a multimeter and the schematic on page 16-56 that it is direct connection…..by Ivans TRE install instructions.. that line is removed completely from the Gear position switch(GPS) by his instructions and goes through his device strait to the ECU thus killing all voltages that can be gained by going through the Gear selector switch that supplies each voltage by a resistor network(I believe just a resistor to lower the voltage to Neutral voltage from 5volts to 4.3volts which is nuetral).

2. Then what is the black wire for?

The black wire is just a ground wire and that’s why Ivans instructions say it doesn’t matter where you put the wires on the supplied connector as for a resistor it doesn’t matter.

3. Why do other bikes say it’s just to fool a bike that it’s in 5th gear. :dontknow:..just believe it’s not related to the 10r ECU.

4. Why would a Neutral signal be necessary? Not sure exactly, so far but for neutral there is 3 wires coming from the GPS (Gear Position Switch and one is to make sure it’s in neutral or the clutch is pushed in before the bike can be started and don’t feel it’s related to the TRE)



So, bottom line as it stands right now…my GEAR INDICATOR WILL NOT WORK WITH THE TRE.

Is it over? Maybe for TRE users. Me and Ivan need to have a long talk but believe he will not talk to long as he says “Patent Pending” on his instruction manual.

So, very sorry guys that are TRE users, If the TRE worked as was advertised it would have worked with my unit…this was a total surprise to me and really a 180deg turnaround on how I thought and many others did to how the TRE works. :badteeth:
 
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#2 ·
I figured that would be the case, oh well. Maybe you'll find another way. Would be sweet, but I'll go without rather than be annoyed by an accumen.

Ivan did say the TRE works differently for the zx10 and is really to eliminate the abrubt off throttle response.
 
#5 ·
Very interesting, don't hesitate to bring more on this, what an eye opener. Sure Ivan will post something about your findings.
 
#6 ·
ZX10Miami said:
I figured that would be the case, oh well. Maybe you'll find another way. Would be sweet, but I'll go without rather than be annoyed by an accumen.

Ivan did say the TRE works differently for the zx10 and is really to eliminate the abrubt off throttle response.

see, I never did figure it would be the case because the TRE was always avdertised by many as fooling the ECU that it's in 5th gear. So, what that suggests is it doesn't mess with the gear position switch at all but later down the line. That is why I thought it will always work as I knew I could tap before it does......but today I found out it is just eliminating the whole thing.:badteeth:


so, I know I said it already and I am sorry guys....even for myself as I was installing the TRE for good as well.

Lets see if Ivan talks to me tomorrow to confirm. I will know whatever he says if it is true by his words because electronics doesn't lie.:wink:
 
#7 ·
Boricua said:
Very interesting, don't hesitate to bring more on this, what an eye opener. Sure Ivan will post something about your findings.
hope so, but noticed he never did in this whole project as it relates to his circuit that relates to mine...why? we will seek. :wink:
 
#8 ·
To "why" or not to "why", that's the question. I think that's how it goes, didn't major in literature. :dontknow: :thumbsup:
 
#9 ·
Actually you can still use it. I am and here is what you have to do.
The black wire is not ground, there is no ground wire. The only way the pot grounds is when the pot engages from the back side is grounds the resistor and completes the circuit. The light green wire is for the neutral signal. (hence don't worry about it). The green with red stripe is the 5v reference for the potentiometer. With the green/red and the black/silver that plug into the tre you can run a tap on the green/red before the tre and still get your 5 volts.
The green/red will now plug into the black wire on the pot. The green/red coming out of the pot will now be your ref. out.
The drawing in the manual is not entirely acurate. It does not show the complete internals of the pot. By doing it this way you will be getting readings the same as the 2-ground that is in the book.
Ex. 1 3.0-3.3
2 1.7-1.89
ex. ex.
hope this helps
 
#10 ·
madkaw said:
Actually you can still use it. I am and here is what you have to do.
The black wire is not ground, there is no ground wire. The only way the pot grounds is when the pot engages from the back side is grounds the resistor and completes the circuit. The light green wire is for the neutral signal. (hence don't worry about it). The green with red stripe is the 5v reference for the potentiometer. With the green/red and the black/silver that plug into the tre you can run a tap on the green/red before the tre and still get your 5 volts.
The green/red will now plug into the black wire on the pot. The green/red coming out of the pot will now be your ref. out.
The drawing in the manual is not entirely acurate. It does not show the complete internals of the pot. By doing it this way you will be getting readings the same as the 2-ground that is in the book.
Ex. 1 3.0-3.3
2 1.7-1.89
ex. ex.
hope this helps

madkaw...do you have a TRE so we can troubleshoot together? I am not giving up yet but think together we can find the problem. I have an internal 5v circuit in the gear indicator box I am selling and belive it might be the key to make it all work out so am still looking at options right now...

so, not following you right now but will take a closer look in a bit....thanks for the input and keep it coming.:thumbsup:
 
#12 ·
madkaw said:
Does your unit measure voltage or ohms to do its calculating?

madkaw...my unit just needs a voltage reference from the ground of the bike to the actual green/red stripe wire going into the ECU of the bike to show which gear the bike is in. The TRE seems to eliminate it completely by disconecting that wire....hope that helps. So, to answer your question...just need the stock voltages to be the same as per page 3-67 of the manual.
 
#13 ·
ahhhhhhh!!!


no no no!!!!


figure it out!!! i love my TRE and wont ditch it to save the world... but damn i want bluedevil's switch indicator also !!! is it too much to ask to have your cake and eat it too !?!??! :)
 
#16 ·
madkaw said:
Does your unit measure voltage or ohms to do its calculating?

madkaw,

tests
I have taken so far tonight suggest the schematic is correct that the black wire with grey stripes is a true ground. I can put it in any gear and there is continuity to ground with or without the TRE installed no matter what gear. I also tried multiple tappings between different wires compared to ground..so far it appears there is no majical circuit other than what the OEM schematic says.:dontknow:

so, will call Ivan and hopefully he will confirm good or bad...at this point no new information guys..stay tuned.:badteeth:
 
#17 ·
Been more than a year since I installed my TRE but.... could you not apply the correct voltage to one wire of the piece that the TRE "eliminates" and then read the output from the other wire???

Kind of revive that "sensor" without putting it back into the ECU loop.

No expert here, just a thought. Guess that is wrong side of the loop though.??
 
#18 ·
miami, just what i was thinking... i have no idea of electronics but that seems to be the solution to what i understand is the issue...
 
#19 ·
If you can get your device to measure in ohms instead of volts and convert that to a gear number (this is what the MXL dash does on mine) it will work just fine. I am sending a 5v refenence in the black wire of the pot and using the green/red as the output signal. Don't connect it to anything on the bike or it will ground itself out.
Bluedevil, you are welcome to call me on the phone if you like. Send me a pm if you want and I will give you my number.
 
#20 ·
Update:

Ok I called Ivan and confirmed the TRE does take the whole gear sensor circuit out of the loop. He would not talk or get into the Neutral voltages but I am sure that is all the TRE is doing, just supplying a constant neutral voltage to the ECU….but the Good News is the GPS circuit is left alone/disconnected completely. The reason it is good news (and some of you hit on it already) is because my Gear Indicator has a steady 5volt reference built in my circuit which the ECU supplies to the GPS circuit if you had no TRE.

Last night in my haste I was forgetting something. Today when I got a chance to think clearly I figured why not create the resistance that the ECU has internally. I took a reading of the ECU and put an adjustable resistor after the 5V out from the gear indicator and tweaked it a little to simulate each gear voltage.

Result.



IT WORKED!!!!!! I got each gear to now simulate each gear voltage (a different voltage for each gear) close or near enough that the Gear Indicator box displayed each gear on the LED unit.



So, here is where we stand. The TRE users it seems it is possible but I can’t install the TRE on my bike as I was putting a switch in to turn it off when I wanted and don’t have the parts. I wouldn’t feel comfortable selling this early without extensive testing on my bike. There is just not enough time to test on the original boards I have and will have to be explored the next round.

So, sorry TRE users but at least I found out its still possible and not a done deal that it will never work. It just might take a little longer for TRE users to get a working setup.

PS…..Ivan said “why don’t you buy an Acumen?” :crackup:
 
#24 ·
Nice Job blue! By the way hows sales going?

So does this mean you will develop further once the first round is sold?
 
#26 ·
Blue devil, not to rain on your parade, but I believe you are giving/sharing tooooooo much info from your project. Your are doing it in good faith and we may not steal your project but others that have access to the site could. Keep up the good work.

PS…..Ivan said “why don’t you buy an Acumen?” :crackup:[/QUOTE]

BTW, that is a statement from somebody that doesn't have faith in you. Everybody else here knows why yours is more precise. Stop writing and get back to work. :lol:
 
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