Gen 3: 2008-2010 Crankcase vent/Vacuum/Oil in Airbox - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-29-2015, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Crankcase vent/Vacuum/Oil in Airbox

I have seen a few threads on here regarding oil in the airbox but would like to expand the conversation a bit.

So I never had an issue with this until I switched to a DME low pro pan. I measured my oil level the same way as before and it takes about the same amount of oil as it did previously. I'm not sure if windage or something is effected or what the issue is. It would seem after launches or sustaining high rpm runs I would have an FI light come on and be burning oil as it was visible in my exhaust. When it happened I would head to the garage and open her up, every time there was oil in the airbox and it had obviously came from the crank case vent hose.

I did some checking on here and guys in the past have plugged that port on the airbox and ran a line to a catch can or a line up the tail with a breather on the end (this is how I am currently setup).

However in doing this I have learned that you take the vacuum away from the crankcase that is generated by the intake (I know right, Captain Obvious and all) and blowby and other gases remain in the crankcase that need to be sucked out. Obviously for this application from the factory it is just sucked into your motor and burned along with your nice clean air and fuel, but we don't really want that do we? Or do we, is it important to have some sort of oily misty air running into the intake for intake and cylinder lubrication or does it get enough from the oil circulation design?

I plan on splitting my cases and taking a notch out of the plate below the vent tube to allow for oil to drain back down easier as I have also seen on here. Hopefully that stops the puking. Then I would like to either return the line back to the airbox to reestablish vacuum, or purchase a pump and leave the airbox capped off.

I know people like to "keep it simple" and all but I feel that I am at a crossroads that requires something here.

How much vacuum is "needed" for proper crank case ventilation? I did some research but most of what I could find pertains to cars not bikes. They say there is even a power increase when running a level of 10-15 inches of vacuum. I am not concerned about making power nor do I wish to debate that. I am concerned with ensuring the crankcase is evacuated of blowby and etc and also with not getting oil in my airbox. My hypothesis is that somewhere around 6-8 inches of vacuum would be sufficient. If that amount is not generated by the airbox I think I will purchase a pump and regulate it to somewhere around there (unless this discussion proves that it is important to have some sort of oily air going into the intake).

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post #2 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 01:26 AM
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post #3 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 01:44 AM
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I'm not sure the crankcase breather actually draws gases out especially when Ram Air is charging the air box also you can see that the breather plate is sealed why do they do that? How does the case in fact breath when it is stock?
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post #4 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 07:20 AM
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The airbox does not generate any measureable vacuum to draw out the blowby gases. The only vacuum is on the engine side of the throttle blades. You do not want the breather tube run into the airbox, as the oily blowby gases contaminate the fresh incoming air somewhat. On all of my bikes I always plug the crank breather fitting on the airbox, and I run a hose from the engine breather up into the tailpiece of the bike. I have never had any oil come out of there, even when running the engine hard at trackdays. If you are getting a lot of oil blown out of the breather, then normally that means you have a blowby issue with the rings. Mike.
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post #5 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 880turbo View Post
The airbox does not generate any measureable vacuum to draw out the blowby gases. The only vacuum is on the engine side of the throttle blades. You do not want the breather tube run into the airbox, as the oily blowby gases contaminate the fresh incoming air somewhat. On all of my bikes I always plug the crank breather fitting on the airbox, and I run a hose from the engine breather up into the tailpiece of the bike. I have never had any oil come out of there, even when running the engine hard at trackdays. If you are getting a lot of oil blown out of the breather, then normally that means you have a blowby issue with the rings. Mike.
Mike where is that engine breather???In the pics we see the crankcase breather.Right?

Gen3 : Arata full exhaust , KN air filter , 520 DID Renthal , oem Ecu converted to Race Kawasaki Ecu , milled ported head , Kent camshafts , lowered , Pk shifter , 14k rev limiter . Ecu tuned by TRE ( mr Balogiannis)

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post #6 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 08:01 AM
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As stated, the purpose of the breather line is to get the oil mist into the airbox to be "re-burned" for emissions reasons. It is not used to suck the gas out of the crankcase using vacuum.

The mist is created from the hot oil getting sloshed around and sprayed within the crankcase. It's inevitable. The purpose of the crankcase breather is to allow for some fluctuations in pressure within the crankcase due to the pumping of the pistons up and down, atmospheric changes, and account for some blow-by on the pistons of the combustion process. Remember, for each piston that is coming downward in the engine, there is another one going upwards. In a perfectly sealed engine, the air displaced by the descending piston will be transferred to the cylinder with the ascending piston. The air moves back and forth within the engine, but there's no pressure increase/decrease from this.

If you want to get rid of the oil mist within the airbox to help improve the A/F ratio by not introducing the oil mist, then you plug the airbox and vent the crankcase out to the ambient air. A catch can routed to collect the oil drippings prevents the residual oil from getting all over everything. At this point, you're done. And you've stated that this has already been done, there's no reason to figure out how to "vacuum" the oil mist out. Forget about it.

Pulling a vacuum on the crankcase can affect the seals and it will restrain the ascending pistons from going back up. In worn out engines with a lot of blow-by on the rings that actually pressurizes the crankcase, pulling a small vacuum can help equalize the pressure back to the way it should be, but the overall effect will be negligible. The goal should be to make sure the piston rings seal good so the blow-by is minimal and make sure that the air is allowed to move freely within the motor casing. Do not pressurize or pull a vacuum on the crankcase.

So bottom line is....quit fucking with it and quit worrying about it because you have the catch can setup and that's all you need.

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post #7 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by michael4012 View Post
I'm not sure the crankcase breather actually draws gases out especially when Ram Air is charging the air box also you can see that the breather plate is sealed why do they do that? How does the case in fact breath when it is stock?
Yes that plate is sealed, there are small passage ways that lead to it throughout the case. If I blow in the vent tube it seems the majority of the air exits on the transmission output shaft oiling holes on the bearing races. So when oil does get up there above that plate it does not drain back down very easily.

I would like to hear from someone that has cut the corner out of the plate to see how it worked for them.

Also as stated I did not have this issue previous to installing the DME, is 4 quarts too much for this pan?

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post #8 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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I have not had any issues with the line I installed that runs up the tail, no oil has ran out of the vent. I figured I was done with it at this point but then someone directed my attention to the vacuum issue. I am however inclined to believe that vacuum is present in the airbox as when I investigated this the oil covered everything in the airbox along with the intake stacks. When I get my bike back I'm going to put a gauge on it to confirm. If there isn't at least 5 or 6 inches I'll just leave it how I have it.

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post #9 of 13 Old 01-30-2015, 09:13 AM
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Iv used a crankcase breather which screws onto the oil filler in the clutch housing & then ran a hose up onto the read valves.
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post #10 of 13 Old 02-01-2015, 10:48 AM
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07 has a dme pan, we run it half up sight glass with open hose vented to atmosphere in tail. no trace of oil at opening even spun to 13500. u do not want any oil mist in combustion chamber, greatly promotes detonation and not necessary for lubrication. no practical pump to evacuate crankcase pressure, to large, too heavy, too high amp draw for sportbike. turbo880 spot on in his post. ck ur level, leave vented to atmosphere. crankcase becomes pressurized, that's normal along with pressure pulse at crankcase vent, blow by seperate issue ring related.

Last edited by gazx10; 02-01-2015 at 10:55 AM.
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