Will Honda abandon the V4? - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-02-2015, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Will Honda abandon the V4?

The inlines seem to have it. Overall they are just more competent as a well-rounded powerplant. Yes the Ducati twins are making great power now and handling quite well but the inlines are showing advantages everywhere. The V4 is not the ideal engine for racing nor is the V-twin for the type of racing now done at the Grand Prix level.

When it was 2-strokes, yes the V4 was king, but that is ancient history now.

The inline-4 GP superbike has really reached a high level of development now and the racing is beginning to get almost (not quite) as exciting as when Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, Spencer, Roberts, and so on were riding the wheels off of those bikes. The diesels are much heavier but have tons of power and great chassis and suspension, and the electronics are pretty well along now.

Yamaha's revised YZR-M1 is showing itself superior in every respect. The Vee engines are tough to get right in terms of position in the chassis, CG management, and location of airbox/exhaust/suspension. Yes it can be done, but much more easily with the I4.

I have had four of the Honda Interceptor superbikes (the ones before they ruined it and made it a touring machine) and could see it was very obvious where Honda had to stuff a lot of junk into a small space.

As I look at my GSX-R 750 and Gen 4 Ninja, there is lots of room and to spare, plenty of leeway to put everything where it needs to be.

Honda's having issues, I wonder what they will do? Suzuki's new I4 is also coming along really well for a first-year bike but then no one questions the fact Suzuki knows how to make a superbike.
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-02-2015, 09:20 PM
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Now that they can get I 4 so narrow its hard to beat. What piston config is gp15? Things a beast. The m1 is a tad down on power to Honda though. They are both down on power to duc
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post #3 of 14 Old 06-02-2015, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fang View Post
The inlines seem to have it. Overall they are just more competent as a well-rounded powerplant. Yes the Ducati twins are making great power now and handling quite well but the inlines are showing advantages everywhere. The V4 is not the ideal engine for racing nor is the V-twin for the type of racing now done at the Grand Prix level.

When it was 2-strokes, yes the V4 was king, but that is ancient history now.

The inline-4 GP superbike has really reached a high level of development now and the racing is beginning to get almost (not quite) as exciting as when Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, Spencer, Roberts, and so on were riding the wheels off of those bikes. The diesels are much heavier but have tons of power and great chassis and suspension, and the electronics are pretty well along now.

Yamaha's revised YZR-M1 is showing itself superior in every respect. The Vee engines are tough to get right in terms of position in the chassis, CG management, and location of airbox/exhaust/suspension. Yes it can be done, but much more easily with the I4.

I have had four of the Honda Interceptor superbikes (the ones before they ruined it and made it a touring machine) and could see it was very obvious where Honda had to stuff a lot of junk into a small space.

As I look at my GSX-R 750 and Gen 4 Ninja, there is lots of room and to spare, plenty of leeway to put everything where it needs to be.

Honda's having issues, I wonder what they will do? Suzuki's new I4 is also coming along really well for a first-year bike but then no one questions the fact Suzuki knows how to make a superbike.
I think it’s more of a Honda thing they haven’t exactly been putting the World on Fire either with Inline 4s since the BlackBird.

I been waiting Decades for a V4 Interceptor that has the Speed and Agility as its I4 counter parts then I may jump ship but it has to be a Honda for me with the Same Ferocity it came out with in the 80s and bullet proof engine as well.

I mentioned this before many times I learned street riding on V4 Interceptors when they meant something not as a Touring Bike but machines to be reckoned with Top Speed and Acceleration.

I am still waiting but my time and patience is running out, I fear at this point it will never happen……we will all be riding Electric Bikes mandated before that happens.

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post #4 of 14 Old 06-02-2015, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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I think it’s more of a Honda thing they haven’t exactly been putting the World on Fire either with Inline 4s since the BlackBird.

I been waiting Decades for a V4 Interceptor that has the Speed and Agility as its I4 counter parts then I may jump ship but it has to be a Honda for me with the Same Ferocity it came out with in the 80s and bullet proof engine as well.

I mentioned this before many times I learned street riding on V4 Interceptors when they meant something not as a Touring Bike but machines to be reckoned with Top Speed and Acceleration.

I am still waiting but my time and patience is running out, I fear at this point it will never happen……we will all be riding Electric Bikes mandated before that happens.

Bloo
Yeah I never cottoned to the Aprilia V4, I am sure it's nice and all that but I was waiting for Honda to do it all again. Honda used a 90 degree V, it sounded just right to me. Why do the V4 for MotoGP and not for the Supersport bikes? And CBR1000RR is a relic, way down on power and not that good of a handler from what I understand. At any rate it's a couple of generations behind now.

I like the inlines now. I think they will emerge as the engine of choice for all Japanese manufacturers in the future. Italians, a Vee, yes. Twin or four. The Germans, I4. They've seen the light. They are not going to change anything. S1000RR has class-leading power but Yamaha, class-leading handling.

Gen 5 will have both. It will be leaving the competition behind like Yamaha is now and have everyone scratching their heads. My opinion.
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 05:37 AM
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Honda not handling well??? That's the only thing they have going for them at this point.
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Honda not handling well??? That's the only thing they have going for them at this point.
Based on the last few races it is not going very well for them. Whatever Yamaha has done, it's working. What did Lorenzo have, an 8-second lead by the end of the race over 2nd place, and then Rossi came from 11th to take third. The Yamahas are clearly showing an edge everywhere but in certain outright speed contests. Either that or Honda's riders need to change their diet and training program. Pedrosa also continues to be a non-contender.

But things could change. It may be as simple as finding a setup issue or software setting; also Marquez chose a harder front tire for the last race and that could have been a factor.

It just looks to me like the V4 may be on its way out.
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by White Fang View Post
The inlines seem to have it. Overall they are just more competent as a well-rounded powerplant. Yes the Ducati twins are making great power now and handling quite well but the inlines are showing advantages everywhere. The V4 is not the ideal engine for racing nor is the V-twin for the type of racing now done at the Grand Prix level.
There are no V-Twin powerplants in MotoGP

The V4 is more than competent, there is just a lot of integration that has to take place at that level of racing between power delivery, chassis flex, traction, feel, feedback etc and it is not always so easy to model that package without real world testing which is very limited at that level. We are talking about a series where front runners instantly become backmarkers due to a simple tire carcass construction change. Lots of variables to contend with when building a bike to ride competitively at that level and it is always a moving target.

Last edited by LDH; 06-03-2015 at 11:15 AM.
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 12:28 PM
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Based on the last few races it is not going very well for them. Whatever Yamaha has done, it's working. What did Lorenzo have, an 8-second lead by the end of the race over 2nd place, and then Rossi came from 11th to take third. The Yamahas are clearly showing an edge everywhere but in certain outright speed contests. Either that or Honda's riders need to change their diet and training program. Pedrosa also continues to be a non-contender.

But things could change. It may be as simple as finding a setup issue or software setting; also Marquez chose a harder front tire for the last race and that could have been a factor.

It just looks to me like the V4 may be on its way out.
You can't really judge the handling of a motorcycle when you are comparing a stock bike vs. full on motogp racing machine. Completely different from the ground up.

I would like to see the V4 come back or still hold some ground. Not because of it's sound (which is pure sex) or anything else, but because it's something different. Most bikes now are inline 4's and majority of the major brands are going in good directions.. but c'mon..... who doesn't love a good V4?

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post #9 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LDH® View Post
There are no V-Twin powerplants in MotoGP
What is Ducati using a V3?

Now that's settled, the V4 is a problem just like Ducati's V-twin was a huge problem in 2014, but a completely new bike and powerplant put them back on the podium. Huge amounts of effort and engineering had to go into that, though, along with an extra 300cc above the Japanese bikes.

Efficiency and timely problem-solving are qualities of the I4; winning races and championships sells advertising (not so much bikes) and advertising is where the $$$ is. Advertisers look at Marquez coming unraveled, crashing out, unable to be a contender, they start throwing money at Iannone, Rossi, Lorenzo, Davidiozo.

Last edited by White Fang; 06-03-2015 at 01:16 PM.
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-03-2015, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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You can't really judge the handling of a motorcycle when you are comparing a stock bike vs. full on motogp racing machine. Completely different from the ground up.

I would like to see the V4 come back or still hold some ground. Not because of it's sound (which is pure sex) or anything else, but because it's something different. Most bikes now are inline 4's and majority of the major brands are going in good directions.. but c'mon..... who doesn't love a good V4?
When I say on its way out I only mean with respect to MotoGP, racing only. Interceptor I think is here to stay. Many times I think if I want to cut down the bikes I have to one, I'd go with the Interceptor hands-down. Not there yet.

I never thought of my Interceptors whilst having sex nor did riding my Interceptor cause me to want to have sex. Looking at and thinking of my hot girlfriend always did that.

Anyways the MotoGP teams don't care if the bike sounds sexy they want to be first across the finish line, no? So I4's seem to be getting that job done best.
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