Turbo ZX10R what fuel - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 11 Old 10-26-2019, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Turbo ZX10R what fuel

Hello Guys,I want to swap a ZX10R engine in a Nissan Micra and turbocharge it.In the car is more space for a big cooler and bigger turbo.I have planed almost everything beside the fuel. Here in europe we have 102 octane (RON) fuel and i am not sure if it is enough knock resistant to run 500+ hp.Compression about 9.5/10 and a GT30 turbo(not sure how much boost it will need). Or should i take racegas.
Does somebody have a drag bike with the same amount of power who can help me.
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-26-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BorisStoykov View Post
Hello Guys,I want to swap a ZX10R engine in a Nissan Micra and turbocharge it.In the car is more space for a big cooler and bigger turbo.I have planed almost everything beside the fuel. Here in europe we have 102 octane (RON) fuel and i am not sure if it is enough knock resistant to run 500+ hp.Compression about 9.5/10 and a GT30 turbo(not sure how much boost it will need). Or should i take racegas.
Does somebody have a drag bike with the same amount of power who can help me.
there are a few members here with big turbo experience im sure thread title will draw attention where are you in Europe?
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post #3 of 11 Old 10-28-2019, 11:53 AM
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...I could be wrong, but 102 is probably not going to cut it. :)

At that power level you'll need to look into either a leaded race fuel and/or and alcohol based fuel. Methanol would be king, but can be rather impractical. E98/E85 cut with a good race gas would be my next choice (VP fuels makes an E85 blend cut with tetraethyl leaded gas that is pretty awesome looking on paper... I believe they call it X85). Following those two choices you'll need to look at your charge temperatures to make a better choice. If your intake temps are getting close to the 200F (93C) range I'd use VP's C16... lower intake temps than 180F or so would make me want to run VP's Q16. C16 is probably the most user friendly fuel in that crowd.

...if you plan on using a GT30 to make that kind of power, you're going to need to run one of the new GTX3071R Gen II turbos to get it done. You may want to look into the G25-660 as well. You'll need a fair bit of pressure to make 500hp... you're looking at something around a 3.0-3.3 pressure ratio to get it there. Moving ~55-58 lb/min of air at that pressure ratio is a tall task for most small turbos, and it'll have a huge boost threshold if you size the exhaust housing to move that sort of top end flow. How much pressure you ultimately end up needing will depend on a LOT of factors... you will need outstanding head flow, cam timing/profiles, and exhaust design to make it work at anything approaching 30psi.
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Last edited by SpazOnaZX; 10-28-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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post #4 of 11 Old 10-29-2019, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much man.I was also thinking about VP race gas probably i will go with the C16 since i can fit a really big cooler in the car or even an Watercooled intercooler. But again thank you for your detailed reply helped me alot.
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post #5 of 11 Old 10-29-2019, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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I am in Germany
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-29-2019, 09:32 AM
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I am in Germany

There are a couple of builders over in England who are well respected with big turbo, Holeshot racing and Big CC although the later is primarily Suzuki, not kawa but a wealth of world championship knowledge.but its unlikely you will pop in too see them from Germany.
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-29-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SpazOnaZX View Post
...I could be wrong, but 102 is probably not going to cut it. :)

At that power level you'll need to look into either a leaded race fuel and/or and alcohol based fuel. Methanol would be king, but can be rather impractical. E98/E85 cut with a good race gas would be my next choice (VP fuels makes an E85 blend cut with tetraethyl leaded gas that is pretty awesome looking on paper... I believe they call it X85). Following those two choices you'll need to look at your charge temperatures to make a better choice. If your intake temps are getting close to the 200F (93C) range I'd use VP's C16... lower intake temps than 180F or so would make me want to run VP's Q16. C16 is probably the most user friendly fuel in that crowd.

...if you plan on using a GT30 to make that kind of power, you're going to need to run one of the new GTX3071R Gen II turbos to get it done. You may want to look into the G25-660 as well. You'll need a fair bit of pressure to make 500hp... you're looking at something around a 3.0-3.3 pressure ratio to get it there. Moving ~55-58 lb/min of air at that pressure ratio is a tall task for most small turbos, and it'll have a huge boost threshold if you size the exhaust housing to move that sort of top end flow. How much pressure you ultimately end up needing will depend on a LOT of factors... you will need outstanding head flow, cam timing/profiles, and exhaust design to make it work at anything approaching 30psi.

Wow holy hell that is a lot of good info. Sure wish I had known all that was required when I turbo'd a ZX12 about 20 years ago to almost 500 without much more added than a thicker base gasket and some water injection. It's amazing what you can do when you don't know that you can't do it
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post #8 of 11 Old 10-30-2019, 11:19 AM
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Water injection is neat stuff... but I've come to enjoy reliability more than neat lately. I've made well over 300 on stock zx10 motors with pump gas and water injection... but they are time bombs... water injection is just not reliable in it's current off the shelf technology. I hate saying that, but that's been my experience in about half a dozen builds at this point, and more than one high performance tuner has shared with me the same. The right fuel just plain works, all the time, and is a shit ton less likely to go wrong.

ZX12's were tough little bastards, and that extra displacement goes a long way. That era of big bore motors from the Kawi/Suzuki were just crazy with their power potential & strength. Doing the same on a modern 10R motor takes a lot of good thought, or a whole lot of luck. I've never been the lucky type, though. Something about all the lightweight architecture and insanely high revs make them a little more difficult to push to 3 times their normal output (and live off the dyno)... I think the same can be said of most the modern motors at this point. I would love to see that 500hp set-up though, there are probably a lot of good things to learn there. :)

Honestly, he could do it NA with nitromethane/methanol... but that's going to be a fun learning experience. And by fun I mean second mortgage kind of fun.
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-30-2019, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for all the help and the fast response.
P.s. I would like to use the stock displacment 998cc and try to break the 500 hp mark first and that after see how much it could take.Because the engine goeas into a car it will get driven more often then a drag bike so i will probably also run a "low boost" map with not more then 300hp just for drinving around. Again thank you very much.👍👍
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post #10 of 11 Old 11-07-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisStoykov View Post
Thank you all for all the help and the fast response.
P.s. I would like to use the stock displacment 998cc and try to break the 500 hp mark first and that after see how much it could take.Because the engine goeas into a car it will get driven more often then a drag bike so i will probably also run a "low boost" map with not more then 300hp just for drinving around. Again thank you very much.👍👍
A little late to the party but welcome! That sounds an interesting project. I will be cool if you make a progress thread here.
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