why are slip-on maps for PCIII full of negative numbers? - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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why are slip-on maps for PCIII full of negative numbers?

Here is an example of numbers from a map for a two-brothers slipon from the power commander site. I thought to get more fuel the % change had to be a positive number...does this mean that this map will actually reduce the amount of fuel where the numbers are negative? WTF???????


0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -5 0 -9 -13 -12 -15 -10
0 -2 -5 -4 -4 -7 -9 -9 -6
0 2 -5 -3 -9 -15 -15 -17 -15
0 -4 -3 -9 -15 -20 -19 -22 -20
0 3 3 -7 -2 3 2 1 -2
0 5 7 10 13 7 6 6 12
0 0 1 7 20 10 9 10 14
0 -9 -3 5 13 -2 -5 -3 4
0 0 -8 -9 -2 -14 -18 -18 -11
0 0 -6 -12 -5 -10 -14 -16 -10
0 0 -1 -4 -5 -7 -10 -10 -7
0 0 0 -3 0 -2 -5 -5 -3
0 0 1 1 -2 2 -3 -2 -6
0 0 -3 -1 1 3 2 2 -1
0 0 -5 -5 -3 2 -3 -1 -1
0 0 -4 -1 0 5 0 2 0
0 0 0 5 5 -1 -6 -3 -4
0 0 0 11 13 -3 -7 -3 -3
0 0 0 9 11 1 -2 2 0
0 0 0 8 10 2 -5 2 1
0 0 0 9 12 4 -1 0 1
0 0 0 8 11 5 0 1 0
0 0 0 8 8 6 0 3 3
0 0 0 11 5 4 -1 4 3
0 0 0 7 7 6 4 5 5
0 0 0 9 7 7 5 8 7
0 0 0 10 4 4 5 8 8
0 0 0 10 5 5 5 10 10
0 0 0 5 2 5 6 7 7
0 0 0 2 3 7 5 6 8
0 0 0 -1 5 4 2 5 4
0 0 0 2 3 2 1 3 3
0 0 0 -2 3 6 3 5 3
0 0 0 -4 2 4 3 2 1
0 0 0 0 0 3 4 5 2
0 0 0 0 -2 1 2 2 0
0 0 0 0 -5 0 5 5 2
0 0 0 0 -8 -3 3 4 2
0 0 0 0 -10 -6 1 2 0
0 0 0 0 -12 -9 0 4 0
0 0 0 0 -15 -8 -1 2 0
0 0 0 0 -16 -10 -3 1 0
0 0 0 0 -14 -12 -5 2 1
0 0 0 0 -16 -16 -7 1 1
0 0 0 0 -12 -12 -5 1 2
0 0 0 0 -12 -12 -5 1 2

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post #2 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 08:52 AM
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You've based your query on one very large assumption (I assume .. ha .. maybe I am wrong too!). And that is, that the factory map is correct.

Now, we know that is not so. Take a look at the stock Euro map for example, it's full of -ve number indicating that in certain ranges the bike is running too rich.

Translate this to a pipe, and yeah, you may still have to lean it out rather than richen it up. Just because you put a pipe on and let a bit more flow through does not always translate to more fuel being required to be injected.

Some of the late 90s Fireblades actually went *down* a jet size or two when you put pipes on them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because you put a pipe on, does not mean you always need to richen the map up all the way through.

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post #3 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 09:13 AM
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I just installed my PCIIIUSB on my 06 10r with a sato slip on. I had the shop preload it with that same map that cdnzx10r speaks of to give me some sort of baseline map. Prior to the PC with just the pipe throttle response lagged and in the mid range it acted as if it was loading up (to rich). Well I can tell that the throttle response is much better and mid range power is instantaneous. The popping on deceleration has been reduced. One thing that does concern me is the presence of the flashing FI warning light. Is this normal. Is there something that can be done about this whether with the PC or simply unplugging it. Hopefully someone can give me some advice.
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuTAnT View Post
You've based your query on one very large assumption (I assume .. ha .. maybe I am wrong too!). And that is, that the factory map is correct.

Now, we know that is not so. Take a look at the stock Euro map for example, it's full of -ve number indicating that in certain ranges the bike is running too rich.

Translate this to a pipe, and yeah, you may still have to lean it out rather than richen it up. Just because you put a pipe on and let a bit more flow through does not always translate to more fuel being required to be injected.

Some of the late 90s Fireblades actually went *down* a jet size or two when you put pipes on them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because you put a pipe on, does not mean you always need to richen the map up all the way through.
I hear ya- and I thought about the same thing...Its just that I was under the impression that the stock map is pretty lean to allow for passing emission/noise test, etc especially in the low RPM range and I thought this is where the PCIII would richen up the mixture...So I was rather shocked to see that at some points, it is actually making it leaner by as much as 20%...

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post #5 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black 10r View Post
I just installed my PCIIIUSB on my 06 10r with a sato slip on. I had the shop preload it with that same map that cdnzx10r speaks of to give me some sort of baseline map. Prior to the PC with just the pipe throttle response lagged and in the mid range it acted as if it was loading up (to rich). Well I can tell that the throttle response is much better and mid range power is instantaneous. The popping on deceleration has been reduced. One thing that does concern me is the presence of the flashing FI warning light. Is this normal. Is there something that can be done about this whether with the PC or simply unplugging it. Hopefully someone can give me some advice.
If you removed the servo that used to move your exhaust flapper valve when you installed your slip on, thats what is causing your FI light. Put the servo back in and hook it up with out the cables and the light will go away.


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post #6 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 07:22 PM
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Thanks for your post 9r to 10r. It made me think about the position of the servo when I took the cables off. I turned the servo to the neutral position about a 1/4 inch clockwise and all is well, no FI error light. Thanks again.
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post #7 of 9 Old 07-21-2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnzx10r View Post
Here is an example of numbers from a map for a two-brothers slipon from the power commander site. I thought to get more fuel the % change had to be a positive number...does this mean that this map will actually reduce the amount of fuel where the numbers are negative? WTF???????


0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -5 0 -9 -13 -12 -15 -10
0 -2 -5 -4 -4 -7 -9 -9 -6
0 2 -5 -3 -9 -15 -15 -17 -15
0 -4 -3 -9 -15 -20 -19 -22 -20
0 3 3 -7 -2 3 2 1 -2
0 5 7 10 13 7 6 6 12
0 0 1 7 20 10 9 10 14
0 -9 -3 5 13 -2 -5 -3 4
0 0 -8 -9 -2 -14 -18 -18 -11
0 0 -6 -12 -5 -10 -14 -16 -10
0 0 -1 -4 -5 -7 -10 -10 -7
0 0 0 -3 0 -2 -5 -5 -3
0 0 1 1 -2 2 -3 -2 -6
0 0 -3 -1 1 3 2 2 -1
0 0 -5 -5 -3 2 -3 -1 -1
0 0 -4 -1 0 5 0 2 0
0 0 0 5 5 -1 -6 -3 -4
0 0 0 11 13 -3 -7 -3 -3
0 0 0 9 11 1 -2 2 0
0 0 0 8 10 2 -5 2 1
0 0 0 9 12 4 -1 0 1
0 0 0 8 11 5 0 1 0
0 0 0 8 8 6 0 3 3
0 0 0 11 5 4 -1 4 3
0 0 0 7 7 6 4 5 5
0 0 0 9 7 7 5 8 7
0 0 0 10 4 4 5 8 8
0 0 0 10 5 5 5 10 10
0 0 0 5 2 5 6 7 7
0 0 0 2 3 7 5 6 8
0 0 0 -1 5 4 2 5 4
0 0 0 2 3 2 1 3 3
0 0 0 -2 3 6 3 5 3
0 0 0 -4 2 4 3 2 1
0 0 0 0 0 3 4 5 2
0 0 0 0 -2 1 2 2 0
0 0 0 0 -5 0 5 5 2
0 0 0 0 -8 -3 3 4 2
0 0 0 0 -10 -6 1 2 0
0 0 0 0 -12 -9 0 4 0
0 0 0 0 -15 -8 -1 2 0
0 0 0 0 -16 -10 -3 1 0
0 0 0 0 -14 -12 -5 2 1
0 0 0 0 -16 -16 -7 1 1
0 0 0 0 -12 -12 -5 1 2
0 0 0 0 -12 -12 -5 1 2
that could be what i am seeing look at my post ....https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42476

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post #8 of 9 Old 07-22-2007, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abadassbikerlad View Post
that could be what i am seeing look at my post ....https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42476
Yeah, I actually followed your thread already...Here's my question: did you just randomly type in 23% or whatever by yourself to see if it makes a difference? or did you do it based on some specific information?

thanks

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post #9 of 9 Old 07-26-2007, 03:03 PM
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B4 i had my bike on the dynajet dyno,my 06 10r ran way rich..I have the 2bro slip on(crap)a bmc race a/f and of corse a pc3usb...After i got it mapped it was maken another 8 hp..
I would rather rich than lean..lol

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