Tire wear (suspension) thoughts? - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Tire wear (suspension) thoughts?

Was my first track day in a year 2 weeks ago. After I got out my own way, I was able to settle down and click off some high 1:40's on VIR's North Course and I'm VERY happy with that considering I'm ridiculously out of shape and I can think of 3 places I was coasting and easily losing 2-3 seconds each.

As I start getting into the black magic that is suspension more and more, I noticed and read that you can tell a bit about your suspension by how your tire wears. I was hoping to get some opinions of what you think:

Front:
http://www.thelunchjournals.com/cust...Tire/front.JPG

Rear:
http://www.thelunchjournals.com/cust.../Tire/rear.JPG

Sag is set at about 27mm front and rear and suspension is stock except for springs and a slightly heavier oil up front (stupid me for forgetting the weight we used - I think it was a 7 or 7.5 Maxima?). Ran standard Pilot Powers (120/70, 190/50) with 31 psi front and rear. Ambient temperature was pushing 100 degrees F all day.

The wear is the same pattern on both edges of both tires. I'm pretty happy with the feel and wear of the rear and gave me no problems all day including some nice sliding out of turn 7 and 17. The front felt "fine" but to be honest I didn't push it terribly hard all day since I'm still getting used to it (and was always a problem for me - working on it! . But the front also looks like it might tearing or melting, just a bit? Not quite sure... I also think that when I installed the new RaceTech springs up front, I may have cut the spacers a little too much as I'm running with only 3 lines showing and running the stiffer side of the middle of the range for Compression. I was thinking about taking out some pre-load and adding more compression? I'm also contemplating adding some washers to add a little more load on the springs, but I'm not sure if that's the way to go or not? Being stock suspension valving might NOT helping though. :D I would just be happy if, for now anyway, I could use the stock range to get it close.

I was REALLY surprised by how well the Powers held up considering the heat. Of course, when you're sucking wind after 5 laps, it probably helps the tire wear a little. :D :)

Any input would be excellent! Thanks!!

Sal Khan

http://www.thelunchjournals.com - Updated 3/8/08!

Last edited by SalKhan; 07-23-2007 at 01:53 AM. Reason: Sorry, meant 1:40s...
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post #2 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 01:14 AM
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Glad you enjoyed yourself and hope you continue to study the black art of suspension.

Based upon the 2 pics i can tell you they are not tearing, in fact not even close so worry not. The front has balled up and thats normal trackday use but had you been able to use the entire front you wouldn't even notice them as it would look just like the rear when used to the edge.
I find the 27mm of front end sag on the short side however whats most important is if your comfortable @ this stage then stick with it until such time your pace quickens and the suspension starts screaming 'help me Mr wizard'

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post #3 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 01:38 AM
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Front sag should be about 10 mm more than rear sag as a general rule. So if your rear is 27 you want the front to be 37 but sag isn't the only thing to worry about. Rebound and compression are very important. If you can find a suspension tuner at a track day it is well worth the money to have them set your bike up. The most I have paid for such a service is $50. And ask your tire vendor or manufacturer what is a good pressure for your tire at the track.

Your tires in your pics look fine. You are not really pushing them too much. Even so if you are putting a lot of heat cycles into the tires you should change them out even if they look like they have a lot of tread left. Again ask your tire vendor about it.

If you gotta ask you can't afford it.
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Nice... Thanks!

Yeah I've heard many different things about Sag and RaceTech recommends running 25-30 mm sag for front and rear on Road Race bikes. My bike does serve double duty as a street bike, but I don't do many long distance miles and since I live in the useless armpit know as Eastern North Carolina - there's really not anywhere nice to ride.

I was kind of hoping to figure the basics on my own before hiring any outside help. But next time I'm up at VIR I'll see how far I screw things up before getting some help.

The main reason I was concerned about the front was because of the uneven rippling of the rubber near the edge. For some reason it didn't seem natural to me, but it could be all in my head.

I won't be able to get up there until the end of August anyway, so I have a lot of time to read up.

As far as heat cycles on the Powers go: They actually held up surprisingly well but the ambient temperature may have helped especially since they're not a race compound tire. I'm going to give the BT-002RS a shot next since I've hear they're a great tire short of race-spec rubber and can hold up to heat cycling quite well. I don't want o to use a full on DOT Race compound yet since I don't have tire warmers..... and am poor.

Thanks so far! Really helps!

Sal Khan

http://www.thelunchjournals.com - Updated 3/8/08!

Last edited by SalKhan; 07-23-2007 at 10:15 AM.
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post #5 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalKhan View Post
As far as heat cycles on the Powers go: They actually held up surprisingly well but the ambient temperature may have helped especially since they're not a race compound tire. I'm going to give the BT-002RS a shot next since I've hear they're a great tire short of race-spec rubber and can hold up to heat cycling quite well. I don't want o to use a full on DOT Race compound yet since I don't have tire warmers..... and am poor.
for the bt-002rs. as fine a tire as any i have used at the track. used to use pilot race on my r-1 and the bts are every bit as good (-) the extra $$$ you'll spend on pilots/corsas/etc..

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post #6 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper View Post
for the bt-002rs. as fine a tire as any i have used at the track. used to use pilot race on my r-1 and the bts are every bit as good (-) the extra $$$ you'll spend on pilots/corsas/etc..
The amazing thing is dealer cost on these things are insanely cheap! If you have the fortune of working for a dealer or reseller, take advantage of the cost!

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post #7 of 9 Old 07-23-2007, 07:03 PM
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my take is that your front is to springy. @ 27 or the install or rate is off w/ 3 lines .
also why runnin a 50? plus alittle save your ass info , track tires are for track and street tires are for st. the front looks alittle hot , those balls from what i understand are not necessarily normal.
suspension is not so black as it is always changing depending on the conditions, set up , i blew a brain circut worrying about sag #`s . it is so much more than that, race tech ????????????? sag has to be ball parked for all components to work properly, but not really for stock crap, it dont work @ all. 002 r/s great tire pros excellent for track.
yeah that front looks as if it may have had cupping too. and hot

Last edited by CFH; 07-23-2007 at 07:08 PM. Reason: add
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post #8 of 9 Old 07-24-2007, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Well the front isn't cupping from what I can tell but I agree that it's running hot. Ran a 50 because we were out of 2CT's at the shop and the standard Power doesn't come in 55 - at least not yet anyway. But I've never had a big problem with turn in or transition on a 50 vs say a 180/55. Sure it's a little slower but I'm a pretty strong guy and compared to my Mille, this bike is a feather. But I am definitely running the 55 in the 002RS when the time comes.

And the way I look at it is this: If the professional riders that guest test the street bikes (Bayliss, Hayden, Rossi, etc...) can make use of the stock stuff (suspension and tires) and still be blazing fast - well then I have a lot to work on in my head. I'm just trying to make the playing field level with my 220lb fat ass with heavier springs. I mean it's only fair right? HAHAHAH!

Ok maybe not...

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post #9 of 9 Old 07-24-2007, 08:39 AM
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Yea no cupping at all but deffinately HAWT!

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