suspension help please guys - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Question suspension help please guys

help help help

probably asking stupid questions and get shit for it but oh well. here it goes.

i am running a 2004 10r with stock suspension. all adjust ments are done for me and i love how it rides.

i was a track day ( lil talladega ) and dam near burnt the left side of the tire off the bike. one guy commented saying i need a oshlins center shock and spring and have it adjusted to me and it would ride better and not be burning up the tire. blah blah

now i have no idea if he is right or not, i have no idea if the shock had anything to do with the tire b/c it was gone anyway ( tire was a slick )
and it was its 2nd track day.

but i dont see putting that much money into a shock when i feel its running fine and i have no issues with it. i was pulling good times for me and was only 4 sec behind him on his times.

so i guess the question to the story is ? is it necessary for me to put that much money out their for the new suspension or is the stock set just as good ? ( just dont have the oshlin sticker on it )

granted i might could use a suspension tech guy to go over my stock set up to see if it could use some tweking or if he feels it fine the way it is long as i have no issues and i am happy.

granted i love to work on getting into wera next year so i guessing that set up will be a project to buy or can i manage out with the stock set up ?

how many run stock set up on track days ?
how many run updated new set up suspension ?

thanks guys

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post #2 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 12:12 PM
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I'm not familiar with that track, and you don't say what tires you were using.

Couple things:

4 seconds a lap is an eternity in roadracing. (Don't take that the wrong way, there's plenty of riders more than 4 seconds a lap faster than I am, too. It just is what it is.)

But, slicks in the sizes meant for this bike are meant to last one race. The fact that you are 4 seconds off the pace means you won't burn them off AS fast, but that second day was probably all that tire was going to do anyway.

The stock suspension has compromises in it that might not be best for track day use; for example the rear suspension is stiff enough to carry a passenger and the front has a hydraulic anti-bottoming gizmo in it that makes the compression damping really stiff in the last portion of its travel (every stock bike is like this). At a certain point you just have to bite the bullet and pay for the good stuff.

I know there is a local track around here (Calabogie) that chewed the heck out of the Pirelli tires that are the spec tires for our superbike series, even though the track is smooth. The solution, but one which was against the rules in that series, was to use a different brand of tire.


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
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post #3 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 12:13 PM
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stock suspension is junk. You will be glad you spent your money. Also, as you go faster, the stock stuff is LESS likely to be able to handle the additional speed, like ohlins or penske would.

as far as your tire goes...it could be many things contributing.

track surface
track temp
tire psi cold/hot
were you using time warmers?
have you used these tires before?
where you at the same track when you first used them?
are your times the same?
did they see alot of heat cycles or freeze since you used them last?

anyway, lots of things to consider on tires/suspension...




For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil full of deadly poison.
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillcountry10r View Post
stock suspension is junk. You will be glad you spent your money. Also, as you go faster, the stock stuff is LESS likely to be able to handle the additional speed, like ohlins or penske would. thanks and the guy below i will be adjusting and saving up and getting me a set of ohslins

as far as your tire goes...it could be many things contributing.

track surface blah was good but not good enough
track temp not sure we only hit 65 or 68 for the day in weather temp
tire psi cold/hot cold was 28 rear. hot i did not check.
were you using time warmers? yes
have you used these tires before? no
where you at the same track when you first used them? no
are your times the same? better with slicks
did they see alot of heat cycles or freeze since you used them last? no they remained the same.

anyway, lots of things to consider on tires/suspension...
which i am seeing from your 2 post how the stock suspension is set up compared to a track set. so that will be a future x mas gift.

i thank you for the insite.

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post #5 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxxerms View Post
track surface -blah was good but not good enough
track temp - not sure we only hit 65 or 68 for the day in weather temp
tire psi cold/hot - cold was 28 rear. hot i did not check.
were you using time warmers? - yes
have you used these tires before? - no
where you at the same track when you first used them? - no
are your times the same? - better with slicks
did they see alot of heat cycles or freeze since you used them last? - no they remained the same.

ok. 1, cold temperature doesn't matter on tires. well it does, but only in relationship to hot psi.

in otherwords, you set your cold psi to what it needs to be to make the right hot psi. you need to know what the hot psi should be on the tires your using. when I was running dunlops awhile ago, they needed to operate at 34psi. so some days I'd have a cold psi of 28, other 30, etc. also through out the day the temp can change significantly, and the track temp, and rider pace will affect this. You need to check your tire temp right when you come off the track.

did you buy the tires new? how do you know if they've frozen, etc?




For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil full of deadly poison.
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post #6 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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yes i set cold to make the hot. but i did not test them saturday and probably should have.

one guy said suspension was the issue.
since i am still running stock.

these where pirelli slicks, one day used on them.
as for frozen ? have not the foggiest idea if they where or not. not sure what that means neither.

i used them at barber one weekend and here saturday. but its a 99% left hand course one right hander.

which i agree temps of the track would play a big factor. it rained on friday cleaned track off, then low temps for weather didnt help.

so researching now into a new suspension kit and pricing etc.
so i will be ready to roll next year.

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post #7 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 03:11 PM
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Pirelli's are notorious for tearing in general. When you had your suspension setup what tires were you running? Each tire has a different geometry to it. If you setup your suspension for lets say a Michelin Power Race your suspension will work great with that tire. Now you switched to a Pirelli Diablo Superbike Slick it will push in the corners I will almost guaranteed it (If you are running the same size tires 120/70-17 190/55-17 ect). Reason the Michelins have a higher center and is an overall steeper tire so you already sit higher or in better terms a triangular shape to them versus the Pirelli's that have a even round shape to them. I just ran 2 days at Buttonwillow with the Diablo Supercorsa DOT's and I had to raise my rearend a full 15mm to compensate. I was running Power Races before. Your stock suspension is fine if it gives you enough adjustment to accomodate your weight and the different tires. Hope this kinda helps you out.

2005 ZX10R Track Bike With Way To Much Sh*t On It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #8 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 03:30 PM
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Switch to a different brand of tires. Expect to have to change your set-up.

Lots of people here have been swearing by the Dunlop Entecs lately. I've not tried them myself.


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 03:32 PM
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The N-Tecs are great tires but they only last one race or maybe two trackdays. Phenominal initial grip but they fade very quickly. Remember they are tires ment for the AMA guys and those guys only need tires to last one race.

2005 ZX10R Track Bike With Way To Much Sh*t On It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #10 of 19 Old 11-10-2008, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Pirelli's are notorious for tearing in general. When you had your suspension setup what tires were you running? Each tire has a different geometry to it. If you setup your suspension for lets say a Michelin Power Race your suspension will work great with that tire. Now you switched to a Pirelli Diablo Superbike Slick it will push in the corners I will almost guaranteed it (If you are running the same size tires 120/70-17 190/55-17 ect). Reason the Michelins have a higher center and is an overall steeper tire so you already sit higher or in better terms a triangular shape to them versus the Pirelli's that have a even round shape to them. I just ran 2 days at Buttonwillow with the Diablo Supercorsa DOT's and I had to raise my rearend a full 15mm to compensate. I was running Power Races before. Your stock suspension is fine if it gives you enough adjustment to accomodate your weight and the different tires. Hope this kinda helps you out.

i was running the 180/55 back tire. but my suspension was set up on bridgestone 002's i have not ran michellins.



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