Gen 5: 2016- Help w/codes and Power Commander V - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-12-2019, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Help w/codes and Power Commander V

Hello all, I recently purchased an Akrapovic slip on pipe, link pipe, and a Dynojet PCV. I've been scouring the internet for hours looking for information about this or a similar install on a '16 ZX10R, but I'm coming up empty. I updated the PCV firmware to the most recent release, and downloaded a map from their website alleging to be a map for the system I'm using. I plan to get a real tune, but I figure for the time being this will be better than stock since my exhaust servo is now disconnected.

My problem: Everything was installed following the instructions to a tee, I checked and double checked all plugs, grounds, wires, etc thoroughly. After putting the bike back together I'm getting all of the lights/gauges on the instrument panel flashing. I guess it's referred to as limp mode? So, I checked out some videos on YT regarding clearing these codes but it didn't work. Unfortunately since we put the bike back together it also no longer will start. The fuel pump will hum, seemingly doing what it's supposed to, but no fire.

I removed the PCV from the equation, figuring that I would still be throwing a code for the servo not being hooked up, but at leas the bike would fire. That also did not work. I got on the phone with a local Kawi dealer/authorized Dynojet tuning center (luckily there happens to be one locally), and they were really helpful but nothing they suggested helped out.

As the bike stands currently I have the PCV hooked up with a stock map loaded (from their website), turning the key to the "On" position will result in the following: the exhaust servo will do it's thing (since there was no instruction to unplug it I left it plugged in), the fuel pump will do it's thing (the humming is priming I'm guessing), and the instrument panel will be flashing (Fuel, KQS, KBC, Power 1,2,3, etc will all be on and flashing similar to the videos on YT), attempting to start the bike will result in cranking but it will not fire and trying to clear codes according to those videos yielded no results.

As you may have gathered I'm not exactly a mechanic and this is clearly my first time doing anything of this nature. I've searched all over and am shocked to find very little clear information about this. Dynojet has installation videos for 300's on their website but nothing for liter bikes, I think that's just ridiculous. At this point I'm totally lost and my next move is to load the bike into my truck and take it down to that dealer/tuning center I mentioned earlier and just let them deal with it. Obviously, not the ideal choice as I already have a considerable amount of money and time into this. I'm thinking (hoping) that they can clear the code with an OBD2 reader, tune it and I'll be good to go.

I've seen a lot of valuable information here, but not anything that pertains to my situation. Has anyone ever had this issue installing a PCV, or able shed any light as to what I'm doing/not doing to correct this issue? Any help is much appreciated.
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-15-2019, 10:10 PM
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Find a code reader.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-16-2019, 09:28 AM
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The reason you can't find information related to your PCV install on a literbike is because no one does that any longer. It's ancient with the ECU reflashing going on these days. The PCV is basically obsolete.

The problem you're having doesn't sound PCV related to me, let alone a fuel map loaded on it. The problem with "checking and rechecking" the installation is that if you thought you did it right the first time and you recheck that again, your thinking hasn't changed any and you won't notice things related to that. It's typical though and everyone does it. But that may be part of it.

What code are you actually showing? Without knowing the FI code(s) that activated, you might be better blindfolding yourself in the dark and throwing a dart at your bike to see where it lands and start there. All of the lights on the dash flashing at the same time is not "limp mode" and not correlated to an error code. If that's what's happening, that is typical of the ECU not being connected or responding at all to the CANbus data connection from the dashboard. It's not plugged in properly or a data line is cut somewhere which is breaking the link. I wouldn't focus on the PCV at all, and would be looking around to troubleshoot the secondary stuff you did on the bike. That would cause it to not run as opposed to a bad firware or shitty downloaded PCV map.

Here's how you pull the error code. If you're seeing an actual issue that is being reported, then you know where to go to fix the issue. Don't do anything else until you get the code (if there even is one)!!!

https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f28/all...ht-218666.html
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post #4 of 10 Old 05-16-2019, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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I think I should clarify a couple points I may have missed in the original post. The whole reason why the connections were all checked was because that was the obvious first course of action. I'm not sure where I said that double checked even though I didn't think there was a problem with them. I think the fact that I said I had to check them again should be indicative that I initially thought the problem was with the installation. If I had a strong belief that it was done correctly I wouldn't have bothered to check them again.

I pulled the codes and came up with the following:

11 - Main throttle sensor; open circuit/short
12 - Inlet air pressure sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
13 - Inlet air temperature sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
14 - Water temperature sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
15 - Atmospheric sensor malfunction; open/short
16 - ??
21- Crankshaft sensor malfunction open circuit/short
25 - Gear position switch malfunction open circuit/short
31 - Vehicle down sensor malfunction open circuit/short
34/63 - Exhaust valve butterfly actuator and/or sensor malfunction; open circuit/short (Can't remember which one it threw)
67 - Oxygen sensor heater malfunction; open circuit/short

I'll point out now that the only plugs that were disconnected during the install was done either out of necessity to disassemble the bike to perform the PCV install, or required by instruction to perform the PCV install. I'll also point out that a number of these codes are things that the PCV plays a role in altering signals to.

To clarify there are no other modifications done to this bike, unless you think my fender eliminator suddenly started tripping the ECU, and it wasn't throwing any codes prior to installing the PCV. This bike was purchased late last season as a leftover (meaning I'm the first owner, so no one else has made any modifications) and has just over 2,100 on the odometer. Needless to say, zero problems. The PCV was installed in conjunction with an Akrapovic 3/4 exhaust system. The only alteration that exhaust system makes to the bike is removing the servo cables from the servo motor which were run to the now not present cat box.

I'm more than positive the problems are originating from the PCV, and I have no doubts that the installation was performed correctly, less there is something left out of the installation instructions.

I think your bad connections theory is pretty legit, the PCV uses a really cheap posi tap to splice into the right most ECU main harness for power, I was not impressed at all with this set up. I have concerns about that whole situation, but I can't really verify that there is a great connection there. I took it apart a couple times and reconnected it to be sure, but it didn't change anything. I'm not very thrilled with that design at all. Could I have damaged that wire with that posi tap? Possibly, but it didn't look like it, I still don't like it though.

After a tech support call with Dynojet their solution is that my bike is "requiring an ECU flash" to run properly after a PCV installation. I was under the impression that this was supposed to negate needing to flash the bike, am I missing something there? I'll be sending the PCV back if that's the case. I'm not adverse to sending the thing back and taking my bike to a shop to be put on a dyno and flashed, it's about the same money anyway. But since it's already hooked up I wouldn't mind figuring out the issue and just running it as is.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-17-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katsubucket View Post
I think I should clarify a couple points I may have missed in the original post. The whole reason why the connections were all checked was because that was the obvious first course of action. I'm not sure where I said that double checked even though I didn't think there was a problem with them. I think the fact that I said I had to check them again should be indicative that I initially thought the problem was with the installation. If I had a strong belief that it was done correctly I wouldn't have bothered to check them again.

I pulled the codes and came up with the following:

11 - Main throttle sensor; open circuit/short
12 - Inlet air pressure sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
13 - Inlet air temperature sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
14 - Water temperature sensor malfunction; open circuit/short
15 - Atmospheric sensor malfunction; open/short
16 - ??
21- Crankshaft sensor malfunction open circuit/short
25 - Gear position switch malfunction open circuit/short
31 - Vehicle down sensor malfunction open circuit/short
34/63 - Exhaust valve butterfly actuator and/or sensor malfunction; open circuit/short (Can't remember which one it threw)
67 - Oxygen sensor heater malfunction; open circuit/short

I'll point out now that the only plugs that were disconnected during the install was done either out of necessity to disassemble the bike to perform the PCV install, or required by instruction to perform the PCV install. I'll also point out that a number of these codes are things that the PCV plays a role in altering signals to.

To clarify there are no other modifications done to this bike, unless you think my fender eliminator suddenly started tripping the ECU, and it wasn't throwing any codes prior to installing the PCV. This bike was purchased late last season as a leftover (meaning I'm the first owner, so no one else has made any modifications) and has just over 2,100 on the odometer. Needless to say, zero problems. The PCV was installed in conjunction with an Akrapovic 3/4 exhaust system. The only alteration that exhaust system makes to the bike is removing the servo cables from the servo motor which were run to the now not present cat box.

I'm more than positive the problems are originating from the PCV, and I have no doubts that the installation was performed correctly, less there is something left out of the installation instructions.

I think your bad connections theory is pretty legit, the PCV uses a really cheap posi tap to splice into the right most ECU main harness for power, I was not impressed at all with this set up. I have concerns about that whole situation, but I can't really verify that there is a great connection there. I took it apart a couple times and reconnected it to be sure, but it didn't change anything. I'm not very thrilled with that design at all. Could I have damaged that wire with that posi tap? Possibly, but it didn't look like it, I still don't like it though.

After a tech support call with Dynojet their solution is that my bike is "requiring an ECU flash" to run properly after a PCV installation. I was under the impression that this was supposed to negate needing to flash the bike, am I missing something there? I'll be sending the PCV back if that's the case. I'm not adverse to sending the thing back and taking my bike to a shop to be put on a dyno and flashed, it's about the same money anyway. But since it's already hooked up I wouldn't mind figuring out the issue and just running it as is.

So....based on the fact that the system is reporting basically all the codes it can, the first thing I'd be checking is the power and connections at the ECU itself. Those typically don't show unless the ECU isn't connected and powered. When I say check them, I mean you're going to have to do a continuity check on the lines. If you have a pushed pin in the ECU connector or it's not fully seated on the ECU, then you'll see this.



Posi-tap splices are usually pretty good and consistent - IF they are installed right! They should be pretty fool-proof. But, if the sheath isn't pieced correctly or if they are repeatedly removed and installed, it can damage the wiring underneath.



The fact that this is all hapening with the PCV disconnected and completely removed means that the PCV isn't the issue. You should take that off again and troubleshoot the system without it to confirm the issue has been resolved. Once you have a working conidion, then you can add the PCV back in and go from there.



The people who install PCVs these days and the ones who use a mail-in reflash service which enables a lot of software features in the ECU, but are generic. You then piggyback a PCV onto that to tweak the fuel map from home after that. It's redundant and not needed if the reflash is specific to your bike. But it's not needed to get a PCV to function, but you're limited on what the PCV can do. Nothing mentioned previously indicates the PCV is causing your issues. Something happened to the bike while trying to install it IMO

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post #6 of 10 Old 05-17-2019, 03:29 PM
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That is a ridiculous amount of codes.

Check your battery and make sure it's charged. Check the connections to the battery terminal. Check ALL your fuses. Sounds foolish I know but I'd bet you have a main power/ground issue that has nothing to do with the PCV.


If all that fails check the ground cable that you were supposed to hook up the PCV ground to. There's a good chance one of the stacking ring terminals was missed.

Let us know how this goes.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-18-2019, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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I pulled the harness out of the ECU and checked all of those cables to make sure I didn't pull one of those pins out while messing with the positap. They all looked good, and the harness felt secure when I went to unplug it, but I took care to be sure it was definitely seated properly when plugging it back in. I also took another look at the positap while I had that harness off, and the connection does look pretty secure, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of contact there .

I tossed the battery on a charger and the voltage is good, the ground was one of the first things that I checked but I pulled the tank and looked at it again also. Looked good. I also had checked the fuses previously, but gave that another look as well for certainty, all was well there.

I ended up reloading the firmware update on the PCV and got the bike to fire, but continue to throw codes. The firmware had been updated prior to the install, but I guess there could have been some small glitch that prevented it from loading correctly. There was a lot of lines in the log after the update that I don't recall seeing when I had done it the first time. Stuff like "initialing", "loading", "100% complete". etc. I'm pretty sure it didn't spit all that information out last time and just gave a generic "update complete" on the bottom of the software. I'm not exactly sure what the issue was, but I literally touched nothing and all of a sudden the bike fired.

The bike at idle seemed to be running perfectly fine, but the codes persist. I gave that guy I had mentioned earlier at the Kawasaki dealer/Dyno tuning facility another call and went over the things I had done since I had talked to him the first time and the results. He also stated that he din't think it was a PCV issue and brought something to my attention I hadn't previously considered. He said that if I turned the key on even once at any point during of after the installation, or while troubleshooting with just one of those sockets not secured and the bike threw codes they would be stored in the ECU and would need to be cleared to go away. Apparently correcting the issue isn't good enough for the ECU, once it's stored that's it, it's in there until it gets cleared electronically. Now that I'm thinking about it I think there's a pretty solid chance that happened considering the number of times I messed around with it. He also suggested that one of the pins in a connector on the PCV itself may not have been seated properly from the factory, apparently that happens with some degree of regularity, now I didn't notice that to be the case but I figure I also could have pulled one out just enough to not make a connection, especially on the lower injectors, a couple were a bit difficult to get to. Or maybe one of them really wasn't seated properly and the second or third time around I inadvertently seated it while plugging it in/messing around with it.

I'm going to take a run down to the dealer this morning and have the clear the codes and see what comes back on, I'm hoping that only the codes(s) related to the exhaust servo come back and I'll be good. I have a jumper for that on it's way but I don't think it'll be here today.

Although I don't have a clear cut cause I'm thinking it was a bad load on the firmware. If the firmware update failed and I plugged in the PCV I think that would basically have the same result as trying to start the bike/turning the key on without any of the plugs the PCV integrates with plugged in, which would also explain why I threw so many codes. It is a ridiculous amount of codes! My jaw dropped when I saw it for the first time. I also tried those YT "clear your error code" methods again now that the bike is running, they still don't work for me.
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-18-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by katsubucket View Post
I pulled the harness out of the ECU and checked all of those cables to make sure I didn't pull one of those pins out while messing with the positap. They all looked good, and the harness felt secure when I went to unplug it, but I took care to be sure it was definitely seated properly when plugging it back in. I also took another look at the positap while I had that harness off, and the connection does look pretty secure, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of contact there .

I tossed the battery on a charger and the voltage is good, the ground was one of the first things that I checked but I pulled the tank and looked at it again also. Looked good. I also had checked the fuses previously, but gave that another look as well for certainty, all was well there.

I ended up reloading the firmware update on the PCV and got the bike to fire, but continue to throw codes. The firmware had been updated prior to the install, but I guess there could have been some small glitch that prevented it from loading correctly. There was a lot of lines in the log after the update that I don't recall seeing when I had done it the first time. Stuff like "initialing", "loading", "100% complete". etc. I'm pretty sure it didn't spit all that information out last time and just gave a generic "update complete" on the bottom of the software. I'm not exactly sure what the issue was, but I literally touched nothing and all of a sudden the bike fired.

The bike at idle seemed to be running perfectly fine, but the codes persist. I gave that guy I had mentioned earlier at the Kawasaki dealer/Dyno tuning facility another call and went over the things I had done since I had talked to him the first time and the results. He also stated that he din't think it was a PCV issue and brought something to my attention I hadn't previously considered. He said that if I turned the key on even once at any point during of after the installation, or while troubleshooting with just one of those sockets not secured and the bike threw codes they would be stored in the ECU and would need to be cleared to go away. Apparently correcting the issue isn't good enough for the ECU, once it's stored that's it, it's in there until it gets cleared electronically. Now that I'm thinking about it I think there's a pretty solid chance that happened considering the number of times I messed around with it. He also suggested that one of the pins in a connector on the PCV itself may not have been seated properly from the factory, apparently that happens with some degree of regularity, now I didn't notice that to be the case but I figure I also could have pulled one out just enough to not make a connection, especially on the lower injectors, a couple were a bit difficult to get to. Or maybe one of them really wasn't seated properly and the second or third time around I inadvertently seated it while plugging it in/messing around with it.

I'm going to take a run down to the dealer this morning and have the clear the codes and see what comes back on, I'm hoping that only the codes(s) related to the exhaust servo come back and I'll be good. I have a jumper for that on it's way but I don't think it'll be here today.

Although I don't have a clear cut cause I'm thinking it was a bad load on the firmware. If the firmware update failed and I plugged in the PCV I think that would basically have the same result as trying to start the bike/turning the key on without any of the plugs the PCV integrates with plugged in, which would also explain why I threw so many codes. It is a ridiculous amount of codes! My jaw dropped when I saw it for the first time. I also tried those YT "clear your error code" methods again now that the bike is running, they still don't work for me.

Well, that's a positive step! I still don't see how the PCV firmware would affect the ECU like that. It doesn't connect to the sensors at all and shouldn't cause those codes. The firmware would affect the engine running, but not the codes like that. If you unplugged and plugged the harness back into the ECU, that may have been the trick. It might not have been obvious, but something got reconnected/reseated. Perhaps.



Reread the thread I posted the link to. It explains how to reset the fault codes manually. The Gen 5 retains them for short periods unlike the previous versions. The procedure is right under the procedure for reading the fault codes in that thread. If the engine is up and running, you're likely good and the codes you're seeing are from them being stored right now!

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post #9 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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I got a bit held up with making it down to the dealership as planned last weekend, but I was able to get there today. They were able to plug their reader in and clear the existing codes with no problem. It appears that attempting the driving recycle cleared most of the codes and the only ones that were remaining were 42 and 43 (or maybe it was 41 and 42). Both are fuel injector codes, I just can't remember which ones it was. After the ride home and making a gas stop all seems well. I have a warranty issue scheduled for Thursday (addressing an unrelated pre-existing issue prior to this whole debacle), after I get the bike back I'll hopefully get some riding in, weather permitting, and I'll post a follow-up with a status update. Thanks for all the help and advice, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me trouble shoot this.

One thing, next time around I'm going to just pay the extra money and get the ECU flash kit, I think Dynojet PCV has a ton of flaws from the design, to the installation, to their support team, and the whole experience generally left a sour taste in my mouth. I wouldn't recommend one, or purchase another one again with what I've learned during my ordeal.
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katsubucket View Post
I got a bit held up with making it down to the dealership as planned last weekend, but I was able to get there today. They were able to plug their reader in and clear the existing codes with no problem. It appears that attempting the driving recycle cleared most of the codes and the only ones that were remaining were 42 and 43 (or maybe it was 41 and 42). Both are fuel injector codes, I just can't remember which ones it was. After the ride home and making a gas stop all seems well. I have a warranty issue scheduled for Thursday (addressing an unrelated pre-existing issue prior to this whole debacle), after I get the bike back I'll hopefully get some riding in, weather permitting, and I'll post a follow-up with a status update. Thanks for all the help and advice, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me trouble shoot this.

One thing, next time around I'm going to just pay the extra money and get the ECU flash kit, I think Dynojet PCV has a ton of flaws from the design, to the installation, to their support team, and the whole experience generally left a sour taste in my mouth. I wouldn't recommend one, or purchase another one again with what I've learned during my ordeal.
That there is a member worthy of help, spent the time giving all the information he had related to all answers without blindly rejecting any.
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