Dyno Maps are Crap ...found the cure - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Dyno Maps are Crap ...found the cure

hi i went to dynojet center with retarder/brake and had my bike tuned for max power, i walked away with 2 or 3 bhp in places extra, then rode it about a bit and noticed that in 6th gear at full throttle if i backed it off then there was more power, it was not like having a throttle, anything above 60% i could hear the engine running lean, so after looking at the stock map for a zzr1400 i noticed the map they had for it had about 20-25 taken out of the top ie it read -24 in places so i decided to add lots of fuel on my map for my 10r i added 10-12 for 80% throttle, and added 18 for full throttle. i added the fuel from around 4000rpm to my amazement the engine did not splutter or cough it pulled with working throttle like it never has before.

SO THE ANSWER HERE IS THAT THE RAM AIR IS LEANING THE FUEL RIGHT OFF AT ANYTHING ABOVE 80 MPH..

Who else is going to try it?

2013 black uk spec gen 4, full akrapovic evo carbon, brembo rcs master cylinder, brembo clutch, ohlins race SCU, woolichracing flashed ecu with stock 02 disabled, ohlins mechatronic rear shock, Suoer corsa Sc2 200 rear smoked hot bodies rear end, Puig screen, s-2 concepts seat hump,Hell hoses, brembo m4 monoblocks samco sport red hoses, samco clamps, evotech oil cap, MWR filter, Putoline syntec 4, Jmt lion battery, nearly all bolts are titanium. 55w 6000k 2.5" Hid projectors.
190.26 hp Din

Last edited by abadassbikerlad; 07-19-2007 at 11:48 AM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 11:15 AM
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The ram air effect will lean things out a bit in comparison to tuning with a static dyno. I think it is possible that they screwed up mapping your bike because it should not be so drastic. Do you know if they plugged the AIS system? That certainly could affect things.
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 11:43 AM
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the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.

1ST GEN-10R 234hp/[email protected], GT2871RS, cometic gasket, tial bov/ex wastegate, BEGI FMU, WALBRO fuel pump,falicon clutch basket,race pak clutch,200/50 pilot,yana-shiki levers,.net wristband, WEGO III,PC3,GPR damper,cbr cals/Galfer SS brake lines,gp shift,1/5 throttle, 2NDARIES REMOVED <<click for how-to, *R.I.P D.J 10 Apr 04*
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hesaves0211 View Post
the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.
er hello what the hell is the hole in the front of the fairing? it feeds the airbox,

kawasaki invented ram air on bikes

2013 black uk spec gen 4, full akrapovic evo carbon, brembo rcs master cylinder, brembo clutch, ohlins race SCU, woolichracing flashed ecu with stock 02 disabled, ohlins mechatronic rear shock, Suoer corsa Sc2 200 rear smoked hot bodies rear end, Puig screen, s-2 concepts seat hump,Hell hoses, brembo m4 monoblocks samco sport red hoses, samco clamps, evotech oil cap, MWR filter, Putoline syntec 4, Jmt lion battery, nearly all bolts are titanium. 55w 6000k 2.5" Hid projectors.
190.26 hp Din
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post #5 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rspec99 View Post
The ram air effect will lean things out a bit in comparison to tuning with a static dyno. I think it is possible that they screwed up mapping your bike because it should not be so drastic. Do you know if they plugged the AIS system? That certainly could affect things.
i went the the dynojet uk importers they sell and teach operators how to use them and pioneer the dyno jet kits in the uk so yes it was set up right, just with static air nothing blown on the fairing to fans at the rad from each side of the bike inline with the top on the front wheel.

Just not how it works in the real world try your bike i know lots of people with this problem.

2013 black uk spec gen 4, full akrapovic evo carbon, brembo rcs master cylinder, brembo clutch, ohlins race SCU, woolichracing flashed ecu with stock 02 disabled, ohlins mechatronic rear shock, Suoer corsa Sc2 200 rear smoked hot bodies rear end, Puig screen, s-2 concepts seat hump,Hell hoses, brembo m4 monoblocks samco sport red hoses, samco clamps, evotech oil cap, MWR filter, Putoline syntec 4, Jmt lion battery, nearly all bolts are titanium. 55w 6000k 2.5" Hid projectors.
190.26 hp Din
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post #6 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hesaves0211 View Post
the bike does not have "ram air" but you are onto something.
or did i read you wrong ? you mean it dont have ram air when on the dyno?

2013 black uk spec gen 4, full akrapovic evo carbon, brembo rcs master cylinder, brembo clutch, ohlins race SCU, woolichracing flashed ecu with stock 02 disabled, ohlins mechatronic rear shock, Suoer corsa Sc2 200 rear smoked hot bodies rear end, Puig screen, s-2 concepts seat hump,Hell hoses, brembo m4 monoblocks samco sport red hoses, samco clamps, evotech oil cap, MWR filter, Putoline syntec 4, Jmt lion battery, nearly all bolts are titanium. 55w 6000k 2.5" Hid projectors.
190.26 hp Din
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 01:33 PM
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You should maybe check to see if you can find a factory pro dyno, they use a 4 gas analyzer which goes by CO readings. If you want a true map for your bike invest in a wideband O2 data logger!
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post #8 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garth285 View Post
You should maybe check to see if you can find a factory pro dyno, they use a 4 gas analyzer which goes by CO readings. If you want a true map for your bike invest in a wideband O2 data logger!
unless you force 100 mph of air into the front of it you will never get a decent map, i do own a piper dyno with brake and 4 gas meter its just not set up yet.

2013 black uk spec gen 4, full akrapovic evo carbon, brembo rcs master cylinder, brembo clutch, ohlins race SCU, woolichracing flashed ecu with stock 02 disabled, ohlins mechatronic rear shock, Suoer corsa Sc2 200 rear smoked hot bodies rear end, Puig screen, s-2 concepts seat hump,Hell hoses, brembo m4 monoblocks samco sport red hoses, samco clamps, evotech oil cap, MWR filter, Putoline syntec 4, Jmt lion battery, nearly all bolts are titanium. 55w 6000k 2.5" Hid projectors.
190.26 hp Din
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abadassbikerlad View Post
unless you force 100 mph of air into the front of it you will never get a decent map, i do own a piper dyno with brake and 4 gas meter its just not set up yet.
Here is what you need to do. Back in 1992 I had unlimited access to the 1st generation Dynojet Dyno. We took a 1990 ZX11, the first year of the "Ram Air" Kawasakis. At the same time I owned a I&C Controls company and did semiconducter cleanroom certifications. We used a laminer flow meter that could be calibrated to read air flow in cubic feet per minute or MILES PER HOUR. We took my back pack leaf blower, which has a rating of 210 miles per hour. This leaf blower has a trigger so that you can vary the air speed. It took 4 people to simulate the bike driving down the road at speed, one to run the bike on the dyno, one person to read the speed of the motorcycle as it accelerated on the dyno to the person holding the laminer flow meter, between the air intake and the leaf blower who then instructed the operator of the leaf blower to eather speed up or slow down the air coming out of the leaf blower to match the speed the bike was running on the dyno. Granted we did not have any way to measure the air/fuel ratio, and this bike was carbarated not fuel injected, but we did not see any increase in horse power due to the ram air effect untill after 135 mph and then only a 3 to 4 HP difference from the bike running stationary with no air assistance. Many people in the know at the time concluded that the ram air effect was minamal at best and the real benefit of the ram air boxes at that time was the fact that you were getting cooler, denser air to the intack verses heated less dense air from around or behind the hot motor. It would be interesting to have someone try this with a new generation bike with "RAM AIR" and a dyno and equipment to read the air fuel ratio. This was kind of a lets see what happens kind of thing and we always wanted to try it again but could never get everything togeather for a more sceintific try.
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post #10 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 03:09 PM
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If you do the math its approximately 140MPH for ram air to start working, they did a few runs a couple of years ago for Superbike magazine , I think the managed approximately 1 psi increase .
With a scoop pointing directly in the airstream and above the boundary layer we managed 1.4psi increase at Daytona at 177 MPH with a normally aspirated V12 3 litre GTP car , we manged almost 2lbs of pressure with an F1 car at the old Hockenheim circuit , by using winglets on the side of the airscoop to accelerate air around it , that was at 210MPH.

With good fuel management the airbox pressure sensor should accomodate the extra pressure and adjust the mixture accordingly.
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