Crack in Cylinder wall? - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-22-2014, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Crack in Cylinder wall?

Leak down test does not show a blown head gasket so I am leaning towards a crack in one of my cylinder walls. What happens is over the course of a race my coolant system appears to be getting pressurized and will blow out water to the point where I start to starve my water pump and boil off the water in my cylinder which causes total loss of coolant or enough it pegs my water temp gauge. Is there any good way to check for a cracked cylinder water jacket?
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-22-2014, 04:37 PM
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I seriously doubt you have a cracked cylinder wall. If that's what you suspect, then you should use the leak down tester to verify that. Instead of doing the test at TDC, do it just after BDC and you'll know for sure. But that would mean the motor would be running like shit and would be getting water into it and burning it. Smoke/steam in the exhaust? Then you can pretty much rule out a catastrophic engine issue.

You need to get a cooling system pressure tester. That will let you diagnose the system for leaks and integrity. They cost less than $50 if you buy them and most auto parts stores have them as part of their loaner tools to rent or use free with a deposit.

My bet is the radiator cap is bad. The motor isn't over-pressurizing anything. The cap is bad and not allowing the system to pressurize properly or keep the fluid from going to the overflow. If the system won't pressurize, then the coolant boils. Boiling coolant creates air in the system which means more boiling.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. It's more likely a $35 part prone to failure than a cracked cylinder wall.

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post #3 of 16 Old 09-22-2014, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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I have replace the cap. I guess in order to do the Leak Down test on BDC I would need to pull the cams? I can pressurize the cooling system and see what this does. I guess to narrow it down to one cylinder vs another I would still need to pull the cams out doing a coolant system pressure test?

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post #4 of 16 Old 09-22-2014, 06:10 PM
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In my case a blown head gasket I think blow out same symptoms, water get out of the cooling system and water get through the head melting down the journal of cam. put on a new head and guess what no f....oil pressure, so now got to dismantle the base and hoping the crank are not bu7rn but just the bearing.

Same thing happen to me, I diagnosise a blown head gasket but who know, when I put out the head visual inspection show no cracks in the cylinder wall.

But now no oil pressure need to open the base of motor. Anyone know where to found bearings except at stealership ? Crank rebuilder shop ?

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-22-2014, 06:35 PM
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I have replace the cap. I guess in order to do the Leak Down test on BDC I would need to pull the cams? I can pressurize the cooling system and see what this does. I guess to narrow it down to one cylinder vs another I would still need to pull the cams out doing a coolant system pressure test?



Thanks

No. No. Why would you pull the cams? Rotate the motor to the bottom of the compression stroke so the valves are closed. Do the leakdown test. If nothing is leaking out, your cylinders are fine. Gotta do it one cylinder at a time just like normal.

The cooling system is tested at the radiator cap. Remove the cap, hook up the tester, verify pressure or leaks, replace cap. The cams having nothing to do with it.

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post #6 of 16 Old 09-24-2014, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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OK, so what I did was put 15pound pressure on my cooling system. Let it sit for 24 hour and it only dropped 2.5# So I borrowed a CO2 tester from a friend in the AC business and rigged a tube from my expansion tank... NOTE this motor is not in a bike. to this CO2 tester careful so it was only sampling air from the coolant system. So every time I rev. the motor the C02 went higher. I feel I either have a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder. Leaning towards cracked cylinder. Tomorrow night I will try a leak down test at TDC and BDC if that is possible. I also put 15# pressure back on the coolant system while the motor was hot tonight. I will see what it shows in the morning.
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post #7 of 16 Old 09-24-2014, 08:14 PM
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OK, so what I did was put 15pound pressure on my cooling system. Let it sit for 24 hour and it only dropped 2.5# So I borrowed a CO2 tester from a friend in the AC business and rigged a tube from my expansion tank... NOTE this motor is not in a bike. to this CO2 tester careful so it was only sampling air from the coolant system. So every time I rev. the motor the C02 went higher. I feel I either have a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder. Leaning towards cracked cylinder. Tomorrow night I will try a leak down test at TDC and BDC if that is possible. I also put 15# pressure back on the coolant system while the motor was hot tonight. I will see what it shows in the morning.

No, you do not have a crack in your cylinder or a blown head gasket. Get off that idea. If either of those were true, there's NO WAY your system would only leak down 2.5 psi in 24 hours. That's normal and indicates an intact system and is the whole reason you tested it that way. You have a defective radiator cap or its making a bad seal which is allowing normal system pressure to move the fluid into the expansion tank.

Did you use the pressure tester to verify dynamic pressure in the system? Hook the pressure tester up to the cap and instead of pumping the system up, start the engine and see what the pressure gets up to on the tester. It should show 14-18psi at operating temp. It's possible you have a restriction in the system that is causing higher pressure on one side of the pump and that's causing the relief valve in the cap to let the fluid by and go to the tank.




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post #8 of 16 Old 09-24-2014, 09:09 PM
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If you have a cracked cylinder wall, I believe that would be the first time such a failure was *ever* reported on this forum. Translation, that type of thing is exceptionally rare. Translation, it is also exceptionally unlikely to be the root of your problem.

Blown head gasket is possible but I think you've got other problems. How much flow are you getting through the system? Do you have enough radiator capacity? Are there any flow restrictions in the cooling system? Are there any high spots that could lead to trapped air pockets impeding coolant circulation? If this is installed in a race car of some sort, it's likely that the pipes to and from the radiator are longer or have more elbows and bends or have high spots where air could be trapped.

High coolant temperature combined with insufficient cooling capacity combined with insufficient pressure held in the system plus restrictions in the flow path could be making the coolant pump cavitate (by causing local boiling).


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post #9 of 16 Old 09-25-2014, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciate everyones input and don't rule out anything at this point, but after last night test and high level of CO2 in the coolant system I really think there is a problem with combustion gas's getting into the coolant?? I have had two different radiators in the car at this points going up on capacity on the second one with totally different hose configurations and I am getting the same results?
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-25-2014, 08:03 AM
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i had a headgasket leak only when the motor was running.....weird but true, on my 2000 ZX6R

2004 ZX10R-few mods here and there......
and even made more Evil by Woolich.
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