broken kibble valve springs - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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broken kibble valve springs

So we tore into the cylinder head to find out what my noise and loss of power issues were, and sure enough as we expected the intake valve springs were broken...all of them. My mechanic said he's not surprised. He had a gsxr in recently with broken kibble white springs also. So needless to say I'm not going back with the kibble white springs this time around.

What I need is some good suggestions or recommendations on what valve springs are worth a shit. Only other ones I've heard of guys running are carpenter, but I don't want to get into a spring that is too stiff that will rob power either.

On another note, while the head is off we are going to mill it down a bit, do a valve job, and possibly a port n polish job on exhaust side. Anyone have any experience/results when porting the exhaust ports?

08 race cam(108/103), 08 retainers, polished exhaust ports, milled head(.010), .45HG, short velocity stacks, removed sec, bmc filter, full Akra Evo cut 5in, pc3., ign module w/rev xtend to 13,500., Lots of 520 sprckts, vortex rearsets (gp shift), pazzo levers, galfer lines, ZX14 calipers, shorai batt, carbon frnt fender, gpr, puig screen, gilles chain adjs., 1/5 throttle, Kleen air mod, Braking rotors, O.Z. wheels, 403lbs full fuel
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post #2 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 10:50 AM
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were those springs shimmed? fixed a bent valve/broken guide for a fellow member with kibblewhites, those springs shimmed over .100. about the only thing that will break a spring is coil bind, and all 8? 30 yrs building engines, installing up to 520 lift cams,never seen anything like that. sounds like some extreme seat pressure to wear out cam and break springs. u also need to ck int. seats valve seal from hammering by valve. stk. springs ok with 08 race int. dont like carpenter springs, lose too much tension quickly. ape may be good alternative. as far as losing power from spring pressure, springs store energy used to compress, returns same amount on valve closing side. lobe/ bucket friction increased though. decking will provide more power, good cnc vj will do same increasing flow and ex. porting will definatley make a difference. often overlooked and a mistake to do so, everyone says ten head factory ported, not on ex. it's not. sorry for the problems u had, but now is a good time to make several more hp with decking, vj, and ex. porting. have a good builder for vj and deck. lmk if u need any help with ex. porting, done a few. pic's under profile. good luck on repairs/upgrades.

Last edited by gazx10; 05-01-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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post #3 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 03:09 PM
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Unless there is a pressing need to do otherwise, OEM is usually the most reliable configuration.

Only thing the gen 1 really needs is better retainers, but even then ... the OEM 2008-model retainers are drop-in replacements and are a little thicker in the critical area.

So my vote is to use the OEM springs, the 2008 retainers, and then keep the valve lift within the bounds of what those springs will handle. (I don't know how much lift they'll handle ... in my recent gen 1 rebuild, I picked Web camshafts that are about the same lift as stock ... reason: we know it won't go out of bounds with the stock valve springs.)


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
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post #4 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 04:11 PM
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what go faster said, springs are overrated for most mild cams being used. i run the same webs as go faster described with stk. springs shimmed .025. for 3rd year. enjoy those cams, they work great, last pass at dragbike natls. 3 wks ago was 159.48 on stk. springs.
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post #5 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 04:40 PM
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I've only ridden mine a bit on the street with those cams to get some break-in and shakedown done, and it still has the stock exhaust on it complete with catalyst (!) and it seems pretty healthy!


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
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post #6 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys thanks for the good info. I have titanium retainers already so good there. We are also replacing the valve seals. Im running 08 race cam on intake and stock exhaust cam. The only reason I was really using aftermarket springs in the first place is the combination of bigger cam and I have 500 rpm extended red line. Is that an issue for stock springs?
We are def milling head, and doing valve job. Ive seen enough gen1 heads to know only the intake side is ported from factory. Exhaust side is rough, but my machine shop guy said with such a mild cam I would get no benefit from porting and polishing the exhaust ports. What do you think?

08 race cam(108/103), 08 retainers, polished exhaust ports, milled head(.010), .45HG, short velocity stacks, removed sec, bmc filter, full Akra Evo cut 5in, pc3., ign module w/rev xtend to 13,500., Lots of 520 sprckts, vortex rearsets (gp shift), pazzo levers, galfer lines, ZX14 calipers, shorai batt, carbon frnt fender, gpr, puig screen, gilles chain adjs., 1/5 throttle, Kleen air mod, Braking rotors, O.Z. wheels, 403lbs full fuel
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post #7 of 29 Old 05-01-2013, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazx10 View Post
were those springs shimmed? fixed a bent valve/broken guide for a fellow member with kibblewhites, those springs shimmed over .100. about the only thing that will break a spring is coil bind, and all 8? 30 yrs building engines, installing up to 520 lift cams,never seen anything like that. sounds like some extreme seat pressure to wear out cam and break springs. u also need to ck int. seats valve seal from hammering by valve. stk. springs ok with 08 race int. dont like carpenter springs, lose too much tension quickly. ape may be good alternative. as far as losing power from spring pressure, springs store energy used to compress, returns same amount on valve closing side. lobe/ bucket friction increased though. decking will provide more power, good cnc vj will do same increasing flow and ex. porting will definatley make a difference. often overlooked and a mistake to do so, everyone says ten head factory ported, not on ex. it's not. sorry for the problems u had, but now is a good time to make several more hp with decking, vj, and ex. porting. have a good builder for vj and deck. lmk if u need any help with ex. porting, done a few. pic's under profile. good luck on repairs/upgrades.
Also, no the springs were not shimmed. All my mods are listed in sig. Head was stock first time around just titanium retainers, KB springs and cam, degreed 110/102, changing that this time too. If I use stock springs with 08 race intake cam should I shim the stock springs any?

08 race cam(108/103), 08 retainers, polished exhaust ports, milled head(.010), .45HG, short velocity stacks, removed sec, bmc filter, full Akra Evo cut 5in, pc3., ign module w/rev xtend to 13,500., Lots of 520 sprckts, vortex rearsets (gp shift), pazzo levers, galfer lines, ZX14 calipers, shorai batt, carbon frnt fender, gpr, puig screen, gilles chain adjs., 1/5 throttle, Kleen air mod, Braking rotors, O.Z. wheels, 403lbs full fuel
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWildb302/videos

Last edited by WildB302; 05-01-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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post #8 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 05:28 AM
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I was revving my 08 with KENT cams 10.2mm lift intake/ 8.8 exhaust and reved the shit out of it up to 14k rpm,never had an issue,but I removed the head recently and found all intake piston pockets decarbonized ,which means the pistons had some contact with the valves, you will probably be fine with your cams until 13.500 with stock 08 springs IF PtV is OK during installtion,I had mine at ~ 1mm for intake a bit more for exhaust.
I have installed APE springs on the 08 retainer,although it's not optimal because these springs are designed for 1st gen retainers and don't sit 100 % straight on the 08 stock retainers.
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post #9 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Ok so another question. Do all first three gens share the same stock springs, and anyone know if they are discontinued?

08 race cam(108/103), 08 retainers, polished exhaust ports, milled head(.010), .45HG, short velocity stacks, removed sec, bmc filter, full Akra Evo cut 5in, pc3., ign module w/rev xtend to 13,500., Lots of 520 sprckts, vortex rearsets (gp shift), pazzo levers, galfer lines, ZX14 calipers, shorai batt, carbon frnt fender, gpr, puig screen, gilles chain adjs., 1/5 throttle, Kleen air mod, Braking rotors, O.Z. wheels, 403lbs full fuel
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post #10 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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Sorry to hear I just installed Kibbles as well.
In your other thread ("ticking above 8k"), you mentioned the int cam was ruined as well. I'm wondering if, as the cam went away and the ramps became more abrupt, that would tend to "shock" or "ring" the spring. Possibly, the cam failed first (from too much "over the nose" pressure), and the springs then failed? Either way, a strong argument for the OEM springs.
Multiple failures are very uncommon in my experience as well, FOUR broken springs WOW!! :headshake
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