bazzaz upgrade to multiple a/f ratios - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 03-29-2010, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
Gen 5 Now!!
 
08zx10rny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,128
Posting Frequency
Images: 4
   
Exclamation bazzaz upgrade to multiple a/f ratios

i dont know if anybody knows that there is an upgrade you can do to the bazzaz z-fi mapper. it allows you to run different a/f at different rpms instead of 1 set a/f ratio throughout the rpm range. i can send anybody who wants it or you can go to the bazzaz website and download the zipped files and unzip them.
08zx10rny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 04-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Squid
 
08zx10r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Alberta
Posts: 33
Posting Frequency
 
Does anybody know what ratio's to use for the different throttle openings and RPM? I just installed by auto-tune yesterday. Looking for some baseline settings for the AFR.
08zx10r is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 02:40 AM
Street Rider
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Posting Frequency
 
You need to put it on a dyno and move AFR around untill you find what mixture gives you best power, then map out the bike targeting that fuel mixture. Every bike is different, and best power AFR can be affected by climate and altitude and air quality. Some bikes are more sensitive to fueling than others so you just have to find out what YOUR bike likes.
Bugermass is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 08:45 AM
Supercharged Mod
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,388
Posting Frequency
         
The other thing is that full-throttle should be optimized for power output, but part-throttle should be optimized for driveability and BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption). This is the thing that most so-called "tuners" miss. It's quite safe to run 16:0 - 17:0 A/F under cruise conditions. Your wallet will thank you, range on a tank of fuel will be better, it won't wash oil off the cylinder walls so piston ring life ought to be better, and it won't foul spark plugs ... and no, you'll never burn a valve or hole a piston when the engine is running at a fraction of its rated power output.

The tricky bit is that "throttle position" doesn't equal "engine load".


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
GoFaster is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 09:05 AM
GP Rider
 
TENN10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 1,688
Posting Frequency
Images: 145
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
The other thing is that full-throttle should be optimized for power output, but part-throttle should be optimized for driveability and BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption). This is the thing that most so-called "tuners" miss. It's quite safe to run 16:0 - 17:0 A/F under cruise conditions. Your wallet will thank you, range on a tank of fuel will be better, it won't wash oil off the cylinder walls so piston ring life ought to be better, and it won't foul spark plugs ... and no, you'll never burn a valve or hole a piston when the engine is running at a fraction of its rated power output.

The tricky bit is that "throttle position" doesn't equal "engine load".
I would hope most tuners know that 16:0 -17:0 would get better gas mileage!

I'm guessing the reason for tuning closer to 13:0 is better safe than sorry.

I personally like running a little cooler at the cost of burning a little more fuel. Even at idle, I think I set mine in the 14's somewhere. May be a waste, but its peace of mind for me.
TENN10 is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Street Rider
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Posting Frequency
 
The reason for targeting 13.0 by default is safety mostley. Also room for changes in wheather, altitude, barometric pressure, humidity. If you tune for 16.5AFRs on a 95deg day then are cruising on a 70degree day you will lean out excessivly and probably start to encounter lean missfires. The other issue with mapping a lean cruise area is that with no control over tip in throttle acceleration enrichment being at a lean cruise then bliping the throttle can cause alot of hesistation if not done correctly. Another thing you must remeber is that when you lean out your mixture flame propagation slows WAY down increasing the amount of heat absorbed by the piston and head. To full optimise for lean cruise you need to jack a bunch of timing in it to make up for the slower flame speed, and to reduce your chance for lean missfire.. This again will increase total heat in the cylinder though so you have to keep an eye on that. So yes it can be done and does work very well, but your risk factor is increased a great deal when doing this due to the limitations of the tuning parameters available on PCs and Bazzaz units. If your running a full standalone or fully programable ecu (like alot of the cars I tune) and have access to all the proper corrections needed to stabilise lean cruise at any air temps, air density, or air quality, and the ability to make fuel corrections in the event that engien temps start to climb too high, as well as massage tip in enrichment, then I would say go for it cause your risk factor of having any issues would be very minimal.

Last edited by Bugermass; 04-11-2010 at 12:55 PM.
Bugermass is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Supercharged Mod
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,388
Posting Frequency
         
Any halfway decent fuel injection system will fully compensate for intake air density so that it won't run leaner at lower ambient temperatures than at high ambient temperatures. And again, I stress, when the engine is running at only a fraction of its rated power output, you are not going to burn anything up and you are WELL within the capacity of a liquid cooling system to handle it. (Air cooling may be a different matter, but I've never messed around with those.)

It's true that fully optimizing lean-cruise needs other things adjusted also, which we don't really have access to. But I've done this on plain ordinary carbureted engines, too. Never had an issue other than a little lean stumble during the first couple minutes of engine warm-up. Just need to make sure that it transitions to rich of stoich as the engine approaches rated torque output, which I do.


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
GoFaster is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 04-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Street Rider
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Posting Frequency
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
Any halfway decent fuel injection system will fully compensate for intake air density so that it won't run leaner at lower ambient temperatures than at high ambient temperatures. And again, I stress, when the engine is running at only a fraction of its rated power output, you are not going to burn anything up and you are WELL within the capacity of a liquid cooling system to handle it. (Air cooling may be a different matter, but I've never messed around with those.)

It's true that fully optimizing lean-cruise needs other things adjusted also, which we don't really have access to. But I've done this on plain ordinary carbureted engines, too. Never had an issue other than a little lean stumble during the first couple minutes of engine warm-up. Just need to make sure that it transitions to rich of stoich as the engine approaches rated torque output, which I do.
I'm not dissagreeing with you that it works or its possible. Just laying out all the things you must consider. You'd think that the stock air temp sensor could correct, but remember your modifiing the inejctor pulse OUTSIDE of the ecu with a PC or bazzaz, so the stock ECU calculations are based on what the ECU is outputting not what the PC has altered it to. With carbs its not as much of an issue since they meter fuel based on the air going in vs atmospheric pressure.

Your in canada, I'm in Texas. In the summer we have ambient temps over 100deg this has a pretty big effect on how much extra heat a motor can tolerate. Like I said not really arguing with you, just making sure anyone who does this has all the info and fully understands the potential risks.
Bugermass is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 04-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Track Day Rider
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: GROTON C.T.
Posts: 147
Posting Frequency
 
so i just got the pcv and auto tune havent installed it all yet. im kinda lost now as to what the auto tune does? does it keep the a/f at what you want say i want 14.0 ot wot ect... it makes sure its there? or does it sample and give it the best mix for what ever condition with out me entering figures for rpm/load?

if not what sould i want to have a/f wise for
cats gone
two br mid pipe and muffler
k&n filter
secondarys out

i just want to be sure im not going to do somthign that will cause a problem but i also want to get the most out of it
rangerbrown is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 04-16-2010, 03:39 PM
Supercharged Mod
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,388
Posting Frequency
         
What someone needs to do, which I'd do if I had the technology to do it but I don't (!), is map out what throttle position corresponds to about 70% of maximum torque output, at every plausible RPM that you can map.

Below that, maybe a little less near maximum revs, you are safe to go lean of stoich (16.0 - 16.5:1 should be pretty close to best BSFC and with good driveability). Around that percentage of maximum torque at any given RPM, it should transition to 13-ish:1.

This is a first-guess haven't done it myself approximation, it's close to what I try to achieve with carbs.


Helibars, MRA screen, Ohlins damper, reversed shift pattern, sorted suspension, braided lines, Michelin Pilot Power, all else stock 'coz it's fast enough!
GoFaster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki ZX-10R.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Price Quote Bazzaz Z-FI, Bazzaz O2 sensor for 07 ZX10R bholmes Vendor Deals 4 01-19-2009 02:50 PM
Multiple Parts, Price Requested Please!!! alltheaces Vendor Deals 1 08-26-2008 12:53 PM
About A/F ratios... lenshead Performance and Tech 4 06-20-2008 09:42 PM
How to put multiple pics in Sig? jblaze The Out House 5 10-21-2007 11:28 PM
multiple angle pics gix 1k '05 TAZ Pictures and Videos 16 09-21-2004 05:52 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome