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2008 ZX-10R Strange fuelling or mapping ? Max power on 1/3'rd throttle opening ?!?

8K views 51 replies 13 participants last post by  kllrvet 
#1 · (Edited)
2008 ZX-10R Strange fuelling or mapping ? PCIII map inside

The reason I'm doing tuning to my bike is mainly to fix the midrange. Top end power is more than enough for my riding.

Got the PCIII today and did some logging and mapping on the road. My aim was 14-14.5 AFR at cruise (constant speed) and 13+ AFR at WOT. Base map is the default DynoJet map for stock bike.

There wasn't too much time for riding, but the bike seems to be a lot more throttle-happy between 4k and 8k rpms.

I wasn't able to clean up the 1/3'rd throttle completely, but it's a lot less noticable. Probably ignition, secondary butterflies or something doing this.

The map-file will be updated till I'm done with it. Can be downloaded here:
Custom ZX-10R PCIII map

Version 1.3 update:
- WOT fixed up to 10k rpms.

Version 1.3 update:
- Fixed 4k rpms after disconnecting exhaust butterfly valve

Second picture is how I read the TPS during riding :lol:

Thanx for all the help btw in pointing me in the right directions on how to do mapping on bikes!

Comments would be nice :)

The original post, initiating the tuning:
Hi all :)

From day one riding the 10R I commented on the strange throttle response. Part-throttle seems very powerful.

Well, today from work I finally realized what's so strange.

Here's the scenario:
1. Cruise at 40-60mph (80-100 kph) in 4'th, 5'th or 6'th gear
2. Open the throttle fully
3. Slowly decrease throttle and notice how the power builds up
4. Open the throttle slowly to full agian and notice how power decreases

At around 1/3'rd throttle, power seems to peak! There is a "sweetspot" around there.

I've noticed this several times without realizing what happened. Fully open throttle gives less power than about 1/3'rd throttle.

Anyone else noticed this ?

I've got a PCIII coming pretty soon, and I hope this will fix the "problem". Now that I finally noticed what's the problem, it's quite annoying.
 

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#3 ·
I actually do believe I notice this in 1st gear as well, as it seems it actually wheelies easier on part throttle than full throttle.
If I do full throttle in 1. from walking speed, it seems to take forever for it to "take off".

The bike seems much more lively on part-throttle.

Could be just me, as it's quite hard to tell due to the big power, but..
Could be my 10R needs a throttle-bodies sync ?

I've got a Wideband Lambda, and will do some logging soon.
 
#5 · (Edited)
2008 ZX-10R runs extreeemely rich between 4.5k and 8k rpms

So, I took the bike for a spin with the Innovate LM-1 Wideband Lambda attached. As I mentioned earlier today, there is something strange with the fuelling!

Here's my log-data:
3-4.5k rpms FULL throttle: 13.5 AFR
4.5-8k rpms FULL throttle: 11.2 AFR
4.5-8k rpms 1/3 throttle: 12.5 AFR

3-4.5k rpms ultralight throttle: 14.5 AFR
6k rpms ultralight throttle: 12.0 AFR

So, once I released the throttle to about 1/3, AFR dropped to 12.5 AFR and I could feel more power coming! Open the throttle full again, and AFR goes back to aorund 11.2 AFR and power drops.

Another thing, the pinging could be due to lean running engine when cold! I measured 15 AFR with a cold engine at cruise below 4k rpms. During warmup the engine should/could run a lot richer.

This could also explain the high fuel usage, as cruise at 6k rpms is as high as 12 AFR! Should/could be around 14.5 AFR.

So, tuners out there. Why is the 2008 ZX-10R running this rich ? I would expect quite a bit of extra power leaning the engine down between 4.5k and 8k rpms. Why did Kawasaki do this to the 2008 ZX-10R ?
 

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#13 ·
So, I took the bike for a spin with the Innovate LM-1 Wideband Lambda attached. As I noted in this thread, there is something strange with the fuelling!

Here's my log-data:
3-4.5k rpms FULL throttle: 13.5 AFR
4.5-8k rpms FULL throttle: 11.2 AFR
4.5-8k rpms 1/3 throttle: 12.5 AFR

3-4.5k rpms ultralight throttle: 14.5 AFR
6k rpms ultralight throttle: 12.0 AFR

So, once I released the throttle to about 1/3, AFR dropped to 12.5 AFR and I could feel more power coming! Open the throttle full again, and AFR goes back to aorund 11.2 AFR and power drops.

Another thing, the pinging could be due to lean running engine when cold! I measured 15 AFR with a cold engine at cruise below 4k rpms. During warmup the engine should/could run a lot richer.

This could also explain the high fuel usage, as cruise at 6k rpms is as high as 12 AFR! Should/could be around 14.5 AFR.

So, tuners out there. Why is the 2008 ZX-10R running this rich ? I would expect quite a bit of extra power leaning the engine down between 4.5k and 8k rpms. Why did Kawasaki do this to the 2008 ZX-10R ?
A lot of times you'll see it lean where the testing's done, and then fat on top to save the motor. 14.5 isn't where it should be. You're about a point or so too lean. You mentioned somewhere about 11.2, and the power dropping. That's pretty fat for a bike, so losing power with that AFR would be normal.
 
#7 ·
Do you have the Power Commander software? They have an 08 Map for a stock bike online and it does lean out the fueling in a lot of areas you describe. I will look at your post and that stock map again when I get home but it seems to confirm what you have seen IIRC.

Great post BTW!

JJ
 
#10 ·
Do you have the Power Commander software? They have an 08 Map for a stock bike online and it does lean out the fueling in a lot of areas you describe. I will look at your post and that stock map again when I get home but it seems to confirm what you have seen IIRC.

Great post BTW!

JJ
I've got that map running in my PClll right now, there is alot points where it's leaned out but I'm too sick to go get the disc and check it out. The jerky on/off throttle has dimenished some too with this map but not completely to my satisfaction.

I'm really hoping to find a pipe soon so I can get a custom map made.
 
#12 ·
i have noticed what you have described in every gear. mine also pings like a motherfucker down low in the first 3 gears. as soon as the full akra evo system becomes available i will buy one and the kit ecu and see what that does for the drivability. i am hoping to not have to buy a pc3 for this bike.
 
#15 ·
It's about keeping the feds happy and keeping the AFR in really safe territory. Depending on the fuel, 13-13.5 is generally where they perform optimally. Every bike being different, you would set it there, and then play with lean(er) and fat(ter) a tad to see where that particular bike likes it. I'll also play around with richer settings in the small T.O. positions to help the rider coming off the corner as well. Depends on who I'm mapping it for, and what their likes/dislikes are too.
 
#16 ·
I thought alot of their principle was more fuel = more unburnt fuel + air injection = hot exhaust = catalyst works.

So, they richen it up to get the catylist to work but they stitch you on fuel economy. Backwards I know ... but it works (as far as emissions go, but not for fuel economy).
 
#17 ·
Thanx! That makes sense.
Not only worse fuel economy, but less power as well! This is in the rpm area where 98% of all riding occurs.

I actually changed the way I use the throttle since I noticed this. When accellerating (2k-8k rpm) I use about 50% throttle then decrease the throttle to where I feel the bike accellerates best, balancing on that sweetsport.
 
#19 ·
My 2008 10R does NOT accellerate quickest at WOT below 8k rpms!

If I accellerate at the "sweet spot" (around 1/3'rd throttle) and do a WOT, I feel power decrease. It increases again as I roll back on the throttle.

Maybe there's something wrong with my 10R? It does overfuel at WOT below 8k rpms, and that's probably why. I think I'm getting the PCIII today (if postal-service is on track), and I will try leaning out WOT values and post the results.
 
#32 ·
Unhook "A" completely and plug the ends that go into the solenoid and also cap off the nipple on the airbox.
 
#34 · (Edited)
The easiest way to do it is the lift the tank and pull the airbox. Under the front left side there is a hose leading to the fresh air system. Pull it from the nipple on the airbox and push a small marble into the hose about one inch in, then plug the hose back onto the nipple. Reinstall the airbox and lower the tank.

Tony
 
#38 ·
Kudos for some good ole real world dyno mapping. Be great to get it on the dyno, but hey, at least this is putting you in the right direction!
 
#42 · (Edited)
You might find this to work better:
13.7 idle 0-20%
13.5 40-60
13.0 80-100
Ah! Thanx :mrgreen:
I'm new to tuning bikes, so every tip is a good one. Why not 14.5 at 0-20% ?

Btw, first test-ride impressions :eek:
I should move the green-zone to 4.5k rpms!

The bike is now "dead" at 4k rpms at WOT. There is no map change there, as AFR was pretty "spot on". I'm guessing the exhaust-flapper-valve could be restricting the engine at around 4k ? The bike is really lively below and above 4k rpms now.

Oh, and btw. There's no more vibrations in the handles! I do believe the cause was the airbox not being tightened against the frame below the fuel tank. I moved it firmly forward before tightening the 10mm bolt, and it seems to have removed all handlebar-vibrations at rpms below 6k.

I'm moving the information, pictures and links in the 1. post to clean up the thread some.
 
#40 ·
From that pic it looks like the KLEEN system is still there and if it is it will throw of the readings! Disconnect the solenoid and remove it completely and take out the hose going to the airbox and cap the nipple coming off the airbox.
 
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