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post #1 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Hi military guys...

My daughter sent me this from Iraq....she is in an 18 month tour....suggestions?

"Dad,

I am having some serious issues out here with my chain of command and I need some advice from you and your military friends. Basically, yesterday, while walking to the chow hall, I failed to render the greeting of the day to the Command Sergeant Major and the Colonel, both of whom I did not see because I was standing in between two t-wall barriers. When I was on the spot corrected I went to parade rest and said nothing but Roger that Sergeant Major, I was told I was not allowed to speak, and that I hoped I liked being an E-5 because I wouldn't be one by the end of the day. He then said for me to get my entire chain of command in his office in one hour. I took my chain of command in there and he told me I was disrespectful to him and the colonel and that I was nothing to him because I was a Military Intelligence soldier and that we were worthless to the fight out here, he said because I was not a tanker or grunt I was useless. And because I was disrespectful I was to get on a plane tonight to Taji, with another unit because he didn't want to see my face anymore.

After this tranpired by immediate supervisors fought so that I wouldn't be moved. the Squadron Sergeant Major ordered me to his office with my chain of command and told me that I have always been disrespectful to him and others and that I was to be given a field grade article 15, relief for cause NCOER and I was to be permanently moved to work under him doing non-intel related work so that he could teach me how to be a non-commissioned officer. Now, I have already contacted the Equal Opportunity, Inspector general, I have a lawyer, I've written to my congressman, I've been to the chaplain. No-one can help me get out of my hostile work environment. I have never received a negative counseling from anyone in the 2 years of being in the ARMY. I won soldier of the year at this Sergaent Major's Board last year. And they are making an example out of me now."

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post #2 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 09:24 AM
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Didn't she have some issues last year Steve with some higher ups disrespecting her? Connection?

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post #3 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 09:29 AM
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Suck it up and show the SM that she can take his crap and drive on. First off she should have been at the position of attention if a colonel was there. So other than the fact that its a combat zone last time I was there and you give no salutes so that foreign operatives wouldn't know the rank of people. You cant beat the system. Its structured so that ncos lead by example. Showing the SM that she can handle what he puts out will work much better for her in the long run. As always there are 2 sides to the story. We where not there so what happened can be totally different that what you are told. not saying your daughter is a lier but the way someone perceives the situation can be way different than what really happened. i am not sure how she became an e5 in under 2 years. That is also the problem with the military the promote people way to early.
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post #4 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 09:40 AM
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she is in an unfortunate position for the following reasons:

-i would highly suggest she files an IG (inspector general) complaint which goes over everyone's head. but i guarantee there are to many IG complaints out in the "sandbox". the thing is, there is way to much rank over there and with that comes dicks heads like she faces and stupid rules and regulations.

-but before any trouble comes of this contact JAG and get a lawyer. dont take any action nor accept any actions against you. once youve contacted a jag lawyer you can make that public in any action.

-however, the military has ways to "quarantine" who they deem "bad seeds" by secluding them in jobs out of their view.


as shitty as this sounds TOPHER is right.

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post #5 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Didn't she have some issues last year Steve with some higher ups disrespecting her? Connection?
Yeah...she has a mouth on her....she is also smarter than any of the other people in Army Intel and they resent that...

Then there is all the sexual harassment stuff...

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post #6 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 10:03 AM
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Suck it up and show the SM that she can take his crap and drive on. First off she should have been at the position of attention if a colonel was there. So other than the fact that its a combat zone last time I was there and you give no salutes so that foreign operatives wouldn't know the rank of people. You cant beat the system. Its structured so that ncos lead by example. Showing the SM that she can handle what he puts out will work much better for her in the long run. As always there are 2 sides to the story. We where not there so what happened can be totally different that what you are told. not saying your daughter is a lier but the way someone perceives the situation can be way different than what really happened. i am not sure how she became an e5 in under 2 years. That is also the problem with the military the promote people way to early.


I have to say I am with Topher on this one. 1. She should of surely been at the position of attention, unless the SgtMaj or Col told her at ease and even then she should of went to parade rest, so yes I can see where they say she was actually being disrespectful. 2. Topher was right again at saying that her being a E5 under 2 years, probably added to the situation, because she is so inexperienced that she didn't know any better. I know if I saw one of my Sgts talking to the SgtMaj or Col and were not at the position of attention, even if they (SgtMaj...Col) didn't say anything, I would still get in the ass later. 3. I always have hated the saying Roger that, because I get the feeling that my Marines are basicly saying whatever in the back of their mind.

But for her to have to go back to her own squadron and have her own SgtMaj tell her, she has always been disrespectful to him is B.S., because if that's true, it should of been addressed a long time ago, and not brought up at this time. And she said she won the squadrons SgtMaj board for soldier of the year, tells me that her command has some issues. I kind of think she has a case, and then again I don't. Regardless, like Hesaves stated, that shit would get swept under the table.

Now don't take offense to any of this, or what anybody else says, because you have so many reasons to be proud of your daughter, maybe my daughter will grow up to be as brave as yours.

Good Luck and Semper Fi to ALL the military members

"Be kind and courteous to everyone you come in contact with but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
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post #7 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 10:37 AM
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I kind of think that this SMag and the colonel are dick heads. I mean for them to be the rank they are they would have to have been in the Army 18+ years already so why are they worried about a 2 year Sgt. giving a greeting in a combat zone? I am not in the Army "Marines" but if I was her I would suck it up and do what it is the Commander wants, avoid any bad paperwork that would look bad on any future promotion warrants, and then when she gets back to ConUS she can file a grievance with the Army command. It seems kind of trivial to me that these guys would be like this to her unless she did something to provoke it.


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post #8 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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More to the story

Seems there's definitely more to the story than what's above. When I was in Afghanistan, a salute was still the order of business but you wouldn't see it taken to this extreme if one wasn't properly rendered. An ass chewin and move on out for the most part. I would assume a Sgt Maj and a Col would have bigger fish to fry and wouldn't spend that amount of time and energy for someone simply not saluting. At any rate I'm AIR FORCE so I won't claim to be the expert in Army mentality. In comparison, it is fact that enlisted promotion on this side is slower than the other branches. E-4 comes at 3 yrs, 30 months at the earliest. She made E-5 in under 2 yrs...She definitely needs to find some SOLID NCOS to help her with the inexperience. Smart or not, I don't think you can learn how to be a highly effective NCO and be thoroughly proficient at your job in that amount of time. That's just a lot of ground to cover honestly. Most Airmen are barely out of their initial phase of training by then, and that's assuming you had a very short technical school and went to your first duty station right away. My .02

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post #9 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AFMEDIC View Post
Seems there's definitely more to the story than what's above. When I was in Afghanistan, a salute was still the order of business but you wouldn't see it taken to this extreme if one wasn't properly rendered. An ass chewin and move on out for the most part. I would assume a Sgt Maj and a Col would have bigger fish to fry and wouldn't spend that amount of time and energy for someone simply not saluting. At any rate I'm AIR FORCE so I won't claim to be the expert in Army mentality. In comparison, it is fact that enlisted promotion on this side is slower than the other branches. E-4 comes at 3 yrs, 30 months at the earliest. She made E-5 in under 2 yrs...She definitely needs to find some SOLID NCOS to help her with the inexperience. Smart or not, I don't think you can learn how to be a highly effective NCO and be thoroughly proficient at your job in that amount of time. That's just a lot of ground to cover honestly. Most Airmen are barely out of their initial phase of training by then, and that's assuming you had a very short technical school and went to your first duty station right away. My .02

AFMEDIC
ABSOLUTELY100% COULDNT AGREE ANYMORE...but the army is accustomed to this and their NCO's arent as groomed as ours. even now w the air force promoting younger staff's (e-5) with its smaller force we experience that problem, and its suck but its baptism under fire for some.

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post #10 of 35 Old 03-15-2008, 01:42 PM
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It's a bit of a predicament because if she decides to fight the action taken against her, she can end-up opening a huge can of worms and end-up making matters a lot worse. As long as she was not demoted, I would let it go and count the days until my tour is over unless this is just the start of more shit to come down on her. Talking to the chaplain was smart, I don't know if there's anything a congressman would do about a reassignment situation. At least she know establishes some type of persecution by talking to the chaplain and if she starts getting harrassed and assigned to shit jobs, then she has established a motive that can be viewed as discriminatory. She's probably going a little too overboard right now with the lawyer and everything else unless she's looking to get out of Iraq.

BTW, my son also made E-5 in two years but he was with the 82 airborne and was a squad leader. He actually made E-6 in little less than 5 years while a reservist and is now a Drill Sargeant in the reserves.
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