CBR1000 Sport rider dyno. - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-17-2004, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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CBR1000 Sport rider dyno.

Seems a little underpowered to me? Or am I reading this wrong?

http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0404_cbr_dyno/

It looks to be just a pinch better than the GXSR1000, but aren't all the new bikes supposed to be 20 percent better or so?
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-17-2004, 10:39 PM
 
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I will say it again that these bikes: all of the new 1000's, kawasaki zx-10r, yamaha r1, and the honda cbr1000rr are very restricted to meet the epa's ungodly restictve standards. A full aftermarket system and a power commander, with a freer flowing intake will easily add from 10-15 horsepower right off the bat. :D :D
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-17-2004, 10:48 PM
 
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For a honda its pretty good ... the 954 were only pushing 130's from bikes which my friends have... my 750 ate up 954s on top end... no bashing here just pure and simple put to the test facts...

The new honda seems pretty powerful at 153... I dont think my 7 will take it any more for sure.

I rode the 954 at a track day and I really lliked the way it handled very smooth and easy to ride fast... The new honda from what i read seems to do the same.
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big b
I will say it again that these bikes: all of the new 1000's, kawasaki zx-10r, yamaha r1, and the honda cbr1000rr are very restricted to meet the epa's ungodly restictve standards. A full aftermarket system and a power commander, with a freer flowing intake will easily add from 10-15 horsepower right off the bat. :D :D
I will say it again, power claims are not based on things you “can” do to your bike. They are based on stock models. They don’t say, well let’s see how can we get higher #’s out of this bike. “Well you know, if someone was to buy an Arta full system, and maybe even a power commander that would bump up the horsepower 10 to 15hp.” Well no kidding, then the bike would no longer be stock. Stock claims are exactly that, based on a STOCK bike.

If they were based on anything other than stock setups, then you could just simply say well this bike will produce 215 at the rear wheel. (Since modified superbikes can produce such horsepower figures). Anyone can make there bike a Superbike if they have enough cash to do it. But then it wouldn’t be stock…. Now would it?

The only methods they use to bloat horsepower figures and still get away with it, is the leaf blower ram air setup. For those not familiar with this, its basically taking a giant engine which creates air flow much like a leaf blower and connects it the ram air vents and runs the motor at near read line while on a dyno. The only other modification they can do besides that to inflate the horsepower numbers is removing the EPA canister. Why can they do that? Simple, not all countries require EPA smog equipment. Most do, not all though so they can get away with saying a stock bike can produce it. However, you will find that with all that factored into the #’s, it’s still way below the hype. So please leave the aftermarket mods out of the stock performance number claims.

There is no argument in terms of inflating. We all know that the makers love to blow things out of proportion. However the Honda rumors of 164rwhp seem to be greatly off.
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post #5 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 01:33 AM
 
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I know that when they do stock bikes it what it is like when then come from the factory. Lets remember when they come from the factory they are severly restricted from all ends do to the epa regulations. One the fuel injecton mapping is set very lean to met regulations. Two the exhaust is very restrictive as well to meet noise regulations. Three the air intake is also very restrictive. I do agree with you about being stock, but lets face it the restrictions come off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. One thing I do not agree with is dynoing the bike with out breaking it in for 2-3000 miles and let all the parts become perfectly matched to each other. I picked up 5-8 horsepower with a extended break in. There has to be a credible way to factor in the effect of the ram air after all it is a stock feature. Ram air has its greatest effect at speeds above approximately 125 -140 mph and it adds about 5% to the horsepower figure at the top end of the powerband. The loss of the charcol canister really does not add horsepower as much as loose dead weight. You get slightly smother powerband but no real appreacible hp gain. Bottom line inflated hp figures sell bikes. I will take the bike with a 160rwhp and a smooth powerband which is very broad insted of the bike which has 180rwhp and a narrow powerband. I believe that most people that buy the new literbikes will never get the bikes out of 3rd gear. I will admit that I was thinking stock in racing terms not street terms my fault. I will not make that mistake again. :( :) :D
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 01:34 AM
 
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I know that when they do stock bikes it what it is like when then come from the factory. Lets remember when they come from the factory they are severly restricted from all ends do to the epa regulations. One the fuel injecton mapping is set very lean to met regulations. Two the exhaust is very restrictive as well to meet noise regulations. Three the air intake is also very restrictive. I do agree with you about being stock, but lets face it the restrictions come off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. One thing I do not agree with is dynoing the bike with out breaking it in for 2-3000 miles and let all the parts become perfectly matched to each other. I picked up 5-8 horsepower with a extended break in. There has to be a credible way to factor in the effect of the ram air after all it is a stock feature. Ram air has its greatest effect at speeds above approximately 125 -140 mph and it adds about 5% to the horsepower figure at the top end of the powerband. The loss of the charcol canister really does not add horsepower as much as loose dead weight. You get slightly smother powerband but no real appreacible hp gain. Bottom line inflated hp figures sell bikes. I will take the bike with a 160rwhp and a smooth powerband which is very broad insted of the bike which has 180rwhp and a narrow powerband. I believe that most people that buy the new literbikes will never get the bikes out of 3rd gear. I will admit that I was thinking stock in racing terms not street terms my fault. I will not make that mistake again. :( :) :D
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post #7 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 05:42 AM
 
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The most interesting thing about the comparative dyno charts is how uncannily close the Honda and Suzuk curves are. It's almost as if Honda bought a bunch of Gixxer 1000 motors and installed them in their own frames.
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big b
I know that when they do stock bikes it what it is like when then come from the factory. Lets remember when they come from the factory they are severly restricted from all ends do to the epa regulations. One the fuel injecton mapping is set very lean to met regulations. Two the exhaust is very restrictive as well to meet noise regulations. Three the air intake is also very restrictive. I do agree with you about being stock, but lets face it the restrictions come off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. One thing I do not agree with is dynoing the bike with out breaking it in for 2-3000 miles and let all the parts become perfectly matched to each other. I picked up 5-8 horsepower with a extended break in. There has to be a credible way to factor in the effect of the ram air after all it is a stock feature. Ram air has its greatest effect at speeds above approximately 125 -140 mph and it adds about 5% to the horsepower figure at the top end of the powerband. The loss of the charcol canister really does not add horsepower as much as loose dead weight. You get slightly smother powerband but no real appreacible hp gain. Bottom line inflated hp figures sell bikes. I will take the bike with a 160rwhp and a smooth powerband which is very broad insted of the bike which has 180rwhp and a narrow powerband. I believe that most people that buy the new literbikes will never get the bikes out of 3rd gear. I will admit that I was thinking stock in racing terms not street terms my fault. I will not make that mistake again. :( :) :D
big b, I guess your against the "mototune" tech of breaking in engines.
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post #9 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco383
The most interesting thing about the comparative dyno charts is how uncannily close the Honda and Suzuk curves are. It's almost as if Honda bought a bunch of Gixxer 1000 motors and installed them in their own frames.
Thats what honda does...take the best of everything and throw it all together.
Kawasaki's are still better though :D :D :D
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-18-2004, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big b
I know that when they do stock bikes it what it is like when then come from the factory. Lets remember when they come from the factory they are severly restricted from all ends do to the epa regulations. One the fuel injecton mapping is set very lean to met regulations. Two the exhaust is very restrictive as well to meet noise regulations. Three the air intake is also very restrictive. I do agree with you about being stock, but lets face it the restrictions come off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. One thing I do not agree with is dynoing the bike with out breaking it in for 2-3000 miles and let all the parts become perfectly matched to each other. I picked up 5-8 horsepower with a extended break in. There has to be a credible way to factor in the effect of the ram air after all it is a stock feature. Ram air has its greatest effect at speeds above approximately 125 -140 mph and it adds about 5% to the horsepower figure at the top end of the powerband. The loss of the charcol canister really does not add horsepower as much as loose dead weight. You get slightly smother powerband but no real appreacible hp gain. Bottom line inflated hp figures sell bikes. I will take the bike with a 160rwhp and a smooth powerband which is very broad insted of the bike which has 180rwhp and a narrow powerband. I believe that most people that buy the new literbikes will never get the bikes out of 3rd gear. I will admit that I was thinking stock in racing terms not street terms my fault. I will not make that mistake again. :( :) :D
The aspect of restriction is true. However, the cat and such can be taken off and it will definitely as you say boost performance. This we are in total agreement. However, adding new headers, and new exhaust, as well as a chip to change the fuel inject map is changing the bike greatly from stock. You can’t measure a bike by what it “Can” be, but what it is. Otherwise you will have every magazine tester on the planet saying “What the hell happened to the claims this maker had, because our dynos say this.”.

The only disagreement I have is on the intake restrictor. With fuel inject technology the way it is now, the intake manifolds are setup strategically to match the engines needs. I see very little to no power loss with the one coming on the bike.

My guess is by the time people mod the new 10R they will probably be pushing 190 or so at the crank and maybe 165 at the rear. That is the shit. But it won’t be a stock bike anymore. Stock claims have to be measured at the way a bike can be legally sold. And though it’s hard to believe the manufactures do have laws which they have to comply by in terms of false advertisement. Just like when you see the advertisements for the 10Rs horsepower on Kawasaki’s website and it says 184ps(At the crank). They have to tell you that, because if they just said 184ps, people out there would start thinking it meant the rear wheel. That would be false advertising and illegal.

Bottom line is inflated figures do in fact sell more bikes. Bottom line is all inflated figures have to be within reason otherwise it would be illegal to advertise them. By your logical all these manufactures could claim horsepower figures 200 plus, because with modifications you can make these bikes that fast. Though the average human owning one of these things will never come close to getting past an aftermarket exhaust.

The CBR1000 was expected to be underpowered since it’s decision to go with an unusual bore and stroke size compared to the trend towards power others have been going towards.

By the way im not so sure about moto's method of break in either. Though it sounds good on paper, many years of engine building experiance tells me in the back of my head "NO". But I will say he makes sense...
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