Gen 2: 2006-2007 Thinking about mods - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-28-2019, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thinking about mods

Hello,

I had a weird fuel pump issue last friday (engine went dead while cruising thru a village, then some no pump prime, prime but stop, etc. I rode home without any problems), and my car mechanic friend asked his bike mech friend who told him he thinks that my fuel pump dying because of the mandatory ethanol content of the fuel. So I took apart the bike. Of course no rust in my tank, the pump looks good too - that not means much of course - , not a hint of any priming issue since; the dirt on the pickup filter was negligible, so I don't think that the pump is shot. Will have it checked of course. While I was there I thought that checking the air filter is a good idea so teared down that too, and.. so on. It's a bit sad thing to see harm that previous owner(s) did with the bike.

Removed the air injection valve to disable the decel popping - using my baffle without the silencing insert antisocial enough, decel popping makes me roll the throttle on and off...

When I removed the air ducts which take the air from the frame to airbox I saw that those rubber ducts are very narrow unlike the frame - did anyone cut off the narrow section of them to see if the engine breathes better due the larger "diameter"? (I'm curious but having no spares I decided to leave them original) If water from the RAM air hole can escape from the frame on the bottom could not much of a problem.

Thinking about removing the secondary throttle plates, but if the ECU also leans the fuel mixture when closing them in 6th gear to restrict the top speed, then it wouldn't make any sense (I removed them from my ex R1 RN12 without any issues but that means nothing for this bike)

Replacing the fuel pump, I have some options, I think I can buy a walbro, or for around half of that price I can get a lesser brand. Will check or have it checked first for pressure, and will also check the kill switch on the handlebar as I read here that could be a problem (but when I tried it worked like it should).

I also want to adjust my rear ride height up a bit to make the bike to turn in a bit faster.
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-28-2019, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, I didn't meant Mod(erator)s, one shouldn't speak about the 'devil', especially at squid 'rank'... ;)

--

So far I ditched KLEEN valve, the secondary throttle plates (7 voted for it, of course 1 screw almost screwed it, but with the use of a small headed flat screwdriver as chisel I removed that too and cleaned the intake port from debris), made a same size ring as the OEM from a pipe with a saw to raise rear ride height, and used both, cleaned the air ducts, box, filter (just the bugs from it).

My friend called that he thinks my fuel pump will die soon, but I put back the tank and refueled it anyway, to have it run so I can check for codes. Sprayed all relay box connectors with contact cleaner (wasn't necessary). I think I will talk with the fuel pump shop rep to have them check my pump, and if it's going bad I'll have it replaced - I don't want to risk getting stranded hundreds of kms from home.

Results so far (not much):
The lack of secondary plates eliminated the rpm hang up (to 1500 rpm from idle) at warmup when I blip the throttle, and also made the idle rpm too low when the coolant temp reached the minimum (40įC) that displayed on the dash, so I had to adjust it. I will test ride it when weather allows it.

No more flat footed ride with the new seat height.. (I already swapped the shock spring from a zx 636 shock as the stock was notoriously soft on 2nd gen).
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-04-2019, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Just reporting back.

I rode around 120 kms with a buddy of mine (just in case the bike dies again), but it was problem-free, so I couldn't get closer to what caused that first-last fuel pump stopping issue.

On slippery asphalt the rear tyre spinned easily, but I don't think that's because the higher rear ride height. Apart from that I experienced some discomfort with this new setup, with a bit more agile response to steering input. I'll decide on the next few rides if that agility worth the negatives (not flat footed at stops, more weight on the arms, etc.), or I will lower it back and learn to ride better instead (pivot steering).

The ditching of KLEEN didn't make all the popping go away, but reduced it to a single spot around 2300 rpm, intensity of it depends on the speed of the deceleration (slow = small pop or none).

The removal of the secondaries: it seems that the engine reacts better to the throttle input below 6000 rpm, especially in the lower gears, but above 6000 in the higher gears (accelerating hard) the throttle response suggested that the mixture a bit leaner than needed (not the fall on it's face lean).
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-12-2019, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Report back again.

I took my fuel pump assembly to a shop and the guy tested it very well - he said he wanted to find a reason to find the pump bad and sell me a replacement, but couldn't, so I have to find the problem's source somewhere else. And he did that for free..

So I wanted to eliminate the O2 sensors too from the possible causes, so I checked them, as I have a #33 FI code which is the #1 oxy sensor, and even if I swapped with the other (which is working fine - I tested them, the #1 O2 has a problem with it's heating coil but #2 OK), and the code was still #33, checked the harness to the ECU connector and it was also fine.. So I cleaned the sensors , put them back but disconnected them, insulated the harness connectors with dielectric grease, rubber glove fingers & zip ties, took out the O2 heating fuse, and rode another 200 kms with my gen2. Worked well, but the stumbling problem appeared a few times again: giving a handful of throttle @ mid rpm-s (around 4000-6000) it was like switched off until I backed down the throttle. Thinking about it it is most likely the TPS sensor, and maybe it can make the ECU to completely shut off the fuel and / or ignition.. so I checked the repair manual just to find out, that unlike for my ex-R1 RN12 for which was a TPS sensor recall, @ kawasaki they thought that much better to have replace the complete throttle assy for around $2000 than just the sensor(s). Fook them... So my next task to check the TPS sensor & also check out if I can replace only the sensor. (on my ex Speed Triple, the service manual had instructions to replace and adjust the TPS, I dont think that kawi's have to have "factory precision" )

Other culprit for the shut-off (fuel sys) could be the kill-switch, but I checked it and it was fine, I cleaned it anyway and assembled.

The tip-over switch also can kill the engine (ign/fueling), but I don't think that could be the cause.

Fuel pressure regulator - but that was checked by the guy as soon as I gave him the pump assy.

ECU - if that is the cause I don't think that could be tested.

I liked Kawasaki before, as my older (ex) ones gave me many good memories, but I'm starting to be a bit disappointed in my choice. I hope I can sort it out and only the good times will roll instead of the bitter taste (of defects by design).
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-12-2019, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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I just read about the clutch switch:
https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/cou...d-99114-2.html
I will check that too, as my bike wont start (doesn't crank) in gear w/ the clutch pulled, I have to put it in neutral if I stall it sometimes.
(this thread will be a checklist maybe helps others if I will find the cause).
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-19-2019, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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The clutch switch or the clutch lever wasn't the OEM - I found many signs that my bike was a crashed example - so even if it worked fine as a switch, it couldn't do it's job because the pin which let out or pushed back by the lever was too long. Cut off 1,5 mm from it, and the engine can start in gear w/ the clutch lever pulled .

The stalling issue - after a flawless operation last friday - yesterday happened again - I was passing some cars then the engine died suddenly. (about 10 km distance from the fuel station). Coasted to the side of the road. Ign off, then on, pump primed, engine started and it was reluctant to rev in neutral, but after a dozen blips it hit the rev limiter fine (normally I never do that with my motors). So I continued the trip, but later every time I've tried to accelerate a bit harder (mostly in 6th - Some posted that their gen2 stumbled in 2nd for a few moments then took off - mine doesn't took off, I have to back off with the throttle) the engine almost died. So shortened the ride and got home as getting stranded in the middle of nowhere not on my wishlist. For me this makes the fuel pump as the primary suspect even if the guy at the shop couldn't find any problem with it, and next week I wil buy a new one - not the cheapest way to guess, but much cheaper than to get another ECU or throttle assy (TPS), or relay box, and the symptoms point to the pump.
Will report back. I have ex-bike's donor (parts) bike, maybe I'll try it's fuel pump in the 10R - the connector is different but I can crimp some custom wiring for it.
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-24-2019, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Bought a Walbro GSS342 yesterday. Noname pumps not much cheaper here, brand aftermarket pumps overpriced at the few places where they are avail, but they are rare unlike in the US, so I checked that the pump not a turbine type fake one, the markings, and paid the price.

After some issues (the Walbro is longer) I think I managed to replace my OEM fuel pump with a Walbro GSS342. Had to decide to reuse the OEM plastic housing with the FPR, or ditch it and get an aftermarket one (FPR), and install the pump to the base, then with hoses, clamps etc.

Problems, changes with this setup:
- The fuel level sensor will be higher, so low fuel warning will come earlier - the pump is longer, so OEM plastic housing cannot sit down to the baseplate as with the original pump (116 mm)
- If I would use the oem filter's plastic shield, then the oem housing would sit even higher - I think that it doesn't do too much, so it wont be missed.
- I had to cut 1-2 millimeters from the top of housing's plastic slides so the hole on the metal "poles" of the pump base and the threaded "U" shaped thingy's hole can match (where the pump's earth terminal & the fuel level sensor bolted - it also fixes the plastic housing to the base)
- couldn't use the Walbro connector - too tall for the housing (the FPR right above it) so I crimped terminals on some silicone insulated wires, but I cut down the metal part which hold onto the insulation (to have more flexibility & clearance to route the wires from the connector - still a snug fit because of the FPR) then I insulated & checked the tightness of the terminals to have a good connection and reduce any chance to shorting)

Will check if it works after I get home from work. I hope that it will, and also that those stalls solved by this too - it's a shite feeling when one knows that the bike isn't fully reliable.
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-24-2019, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Pics - hopefully (if anyone interested).
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-24-2019, 09:59 AM
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I don't know why nobody has commented on your thread the new pump looks good to me, where are you in the world? Kilometres?
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-24-2019, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Michael!

I'm in Hungary (a country from the former eastern block of Europe). Kilometres in the clock just above 28000.

The lack of comments not really a problem, maybe the gen2 not an interesting gen nowadays. I 'talk to myself' here only to share my findings, or thoughts as I found most useful those posts that sharing not only a problem, but the solution too if it's solved later.

The Walbro works, but it's way louder than the OEM Mitsubishi (U-TC33 if I remember correctly) I don't know if that's normal as I never heard one before. I've ridden only a few kils a few minutes ago, because when I finished putting the bike together the rain just came. Works like with the OEM pump, and while I haven't experienced sudden stall while I rode, one time the engine stumbled in 2nd gear @ hard acceleration, had to back off the throttle. I read about that problem in the forums with this gen2, most commenters who haven't experienced that, had TRE or similar device on their bikes - and I don't remember that any post mentioned other than 2nd gear for that stumbling)

But last time I rode before the fuel pump change, the engine once shut off completely (but restarted @ first attempt) and later did that stumbling even in sixth gear - so maybe my OEM pump really okay and somewhere else lies the problem. I've seen video with zx636 which stalled because it's ECU overheated, that's unlikely in my case as it wasn't that hot when the problem occured, and also that 636 couldn't be restarted until it's cooled down. (I'm not saying that the cause cannot be the ECU - we will see when I ride more , but not @ friday night as I don't want to push my luck and/or f.ck up any friend's night with bike rescue/transport task :) )

So in short: walbro is somewhat loud - good if the engine suddenly shuts off again to hear if it's fuel delivery related; the stumbling still there so that's not pump related.

I will see what options I have - I should check the FPR too (and the tank cap vent) before I close out the mechanical side of the fuel delivery system. (then comes the relay box - maybe I'll try to use an external relay for the pump to see if the relay fails intermittently)
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