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Gen 3 gauges on gen 1

9K views 44 replies 10 participants last post by  tak82 
#1 ·
Has anyone had any success putting the gen cluster on their gen 1 and getting the factory gear indicator to work ? I know the differences how the gen 1 needs the speed sensor to have a supplied voltage and the 7.3 or 7.8x difference in speed pulse rates. Anyone willing to build an adapter for me ? I can build an adapter harness but that's it lol.
 
#2 ·
I don't think you done your research the Speed pulses need to be in the Hundreds in % like 700+ to get the speedometer right with a speedohealer or equivalent that can change pules that high, and since a Gen 3 bike I believe runs off the same signal input as the FI line(communication) it's not possible on a Gen 1 bike the FI meaning any communication from the ECU not just voltage inputs, it's not possible so hence the Gear Indicator would not work as well....you will need to buy Aftermarket Gear Indicators.

Bloo
 
#7 ·
I had done it to my 1st gen.
Gear indicator didnt work for me (never really tried to make it work).

The way i did was following a thread in the "How to Section"
This is a 5ish year old video of it working https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNRYBY6ahM
 
#18 ·
You already said YOU can figure it out if you want to... why don't you post up a build list and schematic if you 'are truly for the members'? Right.... no time or "inclining" for that, right?

So let's break this down. Guy comes on to forum with a problem, asks for help with a solution.... namely "Anyone willing to build an adapter for me ?". You tell guy that he hasn't done his research and that he needs to buy an aftermarket part. Another forum member provides an alternate solution, doesn't promote a sale of a goddamn thing, and you jump his bones.... for what? Not sharing what you were capable of but not willing to do in the first place...?

One guy in this thread has been helpful and is trying to get another member what he needs/wants. Another is causing a scene and being petty. I'm sure a poll would reveal who's who.

Praise means squat when it's for accomplishing what said praise is for. Cause/Effect. I wasn't praising him for giving away anything... I was praising him for figuring something out. Now that we all know it's possible, any of us could pick up a text book or two... muster up the 'inclining' to read, and do it ourselves. If taking the initial leap in study and investment to show that something is possible for the masses isn't praise worthy, well, I guess we have too large of an ideals gap to bridge.

/soapbox
 
#19 · (Edited)
You don’t read to well I gave him praise but he also was caught in the past by a Moderator for trying to sell Gear Indicators, whether you like it or not that I am a moderator then that’s your problem when I catch violations they will be dealt with enough said about that especially if I smell selling.


And no he didn’t offer a solution just like his Gear Position Switch Thread he told the member to “Figure it out” and in this thread he tells the member to use a “Controller” after the fact but doesn’t state what controller how to hook it up NADA :heyyou:

Bloo
 
#20 ·
Thanks for all the replies from Bluedevil and thundercoupe9 but truthfully neither of you have helped. Bluedevil, you claim this is a site for members to come to with problems and other members to help and I agree with you 100% that's why I joined. I'm 48, been riding sport bikes for 30 years. I've rode everything from the 86 Ninja600rr, 750's, 1000's in many years, I've had GSXR's Honda 929's, a 954 and a Suzuki TL1000r. I've been on my 05 ZX10r for 7 years so bikes are new to me and I'm not a noob. The gen1 gauge to me sucks. I have had a local man helping, not doing but helping get an adapter going. I'd rather have one adapter than add a speedohealer then a gear indicator adapter and all. We're having problems with the speedometer not reading correct, could be from noise from the ignition, not sure. Now if you want to help another forum member out, when you successfully adapted the gen 2 to the gen 1, did you use a speedohealer or did you build a frequency converter for the speedometer ? And maybe I didn't word my first post correctly in the conversion but I know it's a X7.3 conversion in pulse rate. I have the factory service manuals. As for the gear indicator, voltages are being taken from the gps and converted to pulse and sent to the gauge. I contacted an ElectronicMotorsports and asked about building the adapter for me. They claimed it could be built but they weren't gonna do it because of demand or something. I was asked by them if the signal was fed thru the communication line on the adapter my friend and I are having problems with, so to me the reason they weren't gonna build it is they couldn't do it. As for Thundercoupe9. You offered no help what so ever so yes I will figure it out on my own as you say. Don't treat people as they're stupid just cause they have a question, you may be surprised who your talking with. I hope anyone who has any helpful info will be positive and chime in and help get this up and working as I will offer any of my advice on anything I feel will be a positive experience to other members. Lets all be nice and get along.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies from Bluedevil and thundercoupe9 but truthfully neither of you have helped. Bluedevil, you claim this is a site for members to come to with problems and other members to help and I agree with you 100% that's why I joined. I'm 48, been riding sport bikes for 30 years. I've rode everything from the 86 Ninja600rr, 750's, 1000's in many years, I've had GSXR's Honda 929's, a 954 and a Suzuki TL1000r. I've been on my 05 ZX10r for 7 years so bikes are new to me and I'm not a noob. The gen1 gauge to me sucks. I have had a local man helping, not doing but helping get an adapter going. I'd rather have one adapter than add a speedohealer then a gear indicator adapter and all. We're having problems with the speedometer not reading correct, could be from noise from the ignition, not sure. Now if you want to help another forum member out, when you successfully adapted the gen 2 to the gen 1, did you use a speedohealer or did you build a frequency converter for the speedometer ? And maybe I didn't word my first post correctly in the conversion but I know it's a X7.3 conversion in pulse rate. I have the factory service manuals. As for the gear indicator, voltages are being taken from the gps and converted to pulse and sent to the gauge. I contacted an ElectronicMotorsports and asked about building the adapter for me. They claimed it could be built but they weren't gonna do it because of demand or something. I was asked by them if the signal was fed thru the communication line on the adapter my friend and I are having problems with, so to me the reason they weren't gonna build it is they couldn't do it. As for Thundercoupe9. You offered no help what so ever so yes I will figure it out on my own as you say. Don't treat people as they're stupid just cause they have a question, you may be surprised who your talking with. I hope anyone who has any helpful info will be positive and chime in and help get this up and working as I will offer any of my advice on anything I feel will be a positive experience to other members. Lets all be nice and get along.
Well first off thank you for your response and welcome to the Forum I am sorry this bad blood has happened in your thread Spaz and Thundercoupe have been after me for years it happens when you Moderate for over 10yrs and show discipline on this site you don't always please all those 2 are in the Top 10 that like to challenge me **edit out of thousands of members we have on this Forum**. :badteeth:

Take82 of course I will like to help the Gear Indicator thing it seems Thundercoupe will take to his grave or sell in the background let me know if that's the case.

For the Speedometor it is almost a must to buy a Speedohealer from Heal-tech or sponsor on this site, the reason why is they are adjustable to very high frequencies just enough to get the Speedometer working.....but with that said I never added a Gen 3 Cluster so maybe the Frequency adjustment is different but I doubt it. Also the Speedhealer can help troubleshoot it can send out signals to the Cluster to see if the cluster is even receiving pulse while the bike is stationary. I forget the exact # but it was something like +738 % I remember when I first hooked up my Gen 2 cluster nothing worked It showed 0 miles per hour then contacted Herbert at Healtech real nice guy we worked together and figured out the exact percentage he will help you as well if you own his product.....then because of my Gear Indicator work he sent me a GiPro to test before release to the public it was nice but just not as good as my home made version but thought that was cool of HealTech anyway. A few members in the past have made adapters I soldered mine in but try a search first or look in the "how to" section of this forum I believe there is some more information....Good Luck!!! :thumbsup:

Bloo
 
#23 ·
Bloo when you did you swap and used the speedhealer you atill had to use a jumper to get power to the speed sensor correct ? As of now where going to try and make it a one all adapter that will work everything and only want to use the speedhealer as a lsat resort. The gear indicator will work off of voltage readings coming from the sensor. Took those readings this morning. Silverslk, keep an eye on the post, when/if we get everything up and running I'd be happy to help you with the conversion.
 
#25 ·
It's been a long time remember I was the first one on this site that attempted the conversion so my memory is not that sharp on the details. I am in a hotel all weekend so don't have the manual available but I believe the 5V for the speed sensor comes from the ECU so not needed....... just not 100% right now. I do remember doing a jumper of some kind but can't remember the reason why I would have to go back and look at my notes. If I get some time next week I can take a look.....sorry Bloo
 
#26 ·
#27 ·
The 05 speed sensor requires the voltage from the gauge, it's #12 position labeled speed sensor supply voltage. The 08 sensor gets it's supply from the ecu I believe. I guess my question was meant to ask how you jumped it. As for the gear indicator, it works off pulses. We run the voltage readings thru a controller. That much all works fine, it's the speedometer. Hopefully the new adapter will fix that, I believe the last one either had a bad connection or there was noise in the signal cause when the adapter was bench tested it worked flawlessly.
 
#29 ·
Hi take82,

I'm home now found my notes you where right I see I did a jumper from Pin #10 to Pin #12.

As for the Gear indicator looks like your made good progress so far :thumbsup: so are you converting the gear position voltage readings?

Thanks,

Bloo
 
#31 ·
Hey Boo, yeah we're converting the gps voltages into a signal. The man helping me ( he's doing the code writing) is using a Pro Mini board as the prototype board. He just informed me there may be a problem with the speedometer (interupt) because of not enough room on the pro mini. If that's the case I will just use his adapter for the gear indicator and use a Speedohealer for the speedometer, but I noticed the healer only adjust 99% ?? you used the healer correct ??
Here's why I asked for help on the forum, Mike ( my programmer ) and I are over 2 hrs apart. He is writing the code and I'm doing all the testing, pulling the voltages, frequencies and so forth. Mike has bench tested the adapter then when you put it on the bike as with anything issues arise, so it's back to adding a resister or filtering signal and so forth. You know how it goes. I asked for assistance to try and eliminate problems before we ran into them. Everything works great so far except issues with the speedometer. We'' see if this new adapter works,
I know I'm not the only one who's tried this and failed so I don't feel defeated yet lol. I had bought an adapter from Tim Smith (EXTR400), the first adapter was basically for the zx6r, I discovered it didn't have the needed power for the speed sensor and sent it back to Tim where he revamped the adapter and I think with help from local guys they tested a new version of his adapter built for the zx10. He sent me a new adapter ( VERY nice) by the way, but when I put it on the bike, poof, no speedometer, just reads zero and will only show gear one. After testing the speed signal out of the adapter something just isn't working, processor or something but again the speedometer was a no go. Sucks cause his adapter was so adjustable for gears and such. Oh well. Speedohealer is looking nice lol.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Hi Tak82 love that you haven't gave up yet :thumbsup:

As for the speedohealer the old Versions 3.0 were only adjustable up to +99% you need at least +769% with -1/+1 gearing and that assumes the Gen 2 and Gen 3 bikes clusters are the same or speed sensor signals.

Now any New Version of the Speedohealer is adjustable from -99% up to +9999%(the late versions 3.0 C8 model which I have for sale right now is the same adjust-ability of the 4.0 models)

Hope that helps,

Bloo
 
#36 ·
I believe because you are 2 new to the site wait until 30days membership if still can't edit your post let me know....if you want something specific right now let ANY Moderator know including myself.....thanks

bloo
 
#38 · (Edited)
Found this on Kawiforums I guess Thundercoupe was not the first to make a Gear Indicator work on stock gauge and this is what I was asking for in the first place before he took his ball and went home :wink: ... I like this post he *edit* Kawiforum Member learned the ECU what signals to produce or needed to produce the Gear Indicator even though it's not the same as using Gear Switch voltages but the IDEA is the SAME....and what is needed to keep the FI light off.....it's not CAN Bus like today's bikes either.....once you know what is needed then start the programing circuit boards and parts are easy to make and get that's what I did when I made my gear indicator I designed a board and had a manufacturer make it based off my design....Good Stuff :cool: ......bloo
A while ago there was a big discussion on how to fit a P7 style ZX6 speedo onto an older model bike (typically the 05/06 C1H model).

The main reason for doing this was to have the nice white dial easily readable clocks instead of the quite trick but less clear LCD type.

Well the long and short of it was that you could replace the speedo (indeed the mounting bolts are exactly the same for both models) so long as you made up an adapter (because the speedo used a different connector on the new model). However you had to put up with an annoying flashing warning light caused by no ECU communication to the clocks. The only solution at the time was to tape over the light, but then you wouldn't have the benefit of any real warnings.

At long last I've got around to reverse engineering the communication signal between a P7 ECU and a P7 speedo. The idea is we fit a little micro chip circuit to fool the new speedo and make it all work perfectly on an 05 ZX636. In fact, not only does the warning light behave, but we can also make the gear indicator work properly (ie make a TRE type gadget) too.

I don't expect this to be much use to most folks, but I wanted to put the info into the public domain as its apparently not known. You would need to be an electronics engineer to make use of this stuff.

OK, here we go with part1. The signals:

The speedo ECU comms line has a built in pull-up resistor to 10v so to inject a signal we need an open collector drive.
The comms line is normally HI (9.8v or so)
Data is sent in three packets at 10ms period between the start of each data byte.
The data signal is repeated at a period of 80ms (or roughly 60ms from the end of one packet to the start of the next).
If the data is interrupted, then after a few seconds the speedo will report a FI error and do the flashy red light (LED) thing, so we need to keep the data packets going continuously.
The data starts only when the ignition is turned on.
The three packets of data are all serial 8 bits plus one start bit (lo). The period of each bit is 64us.
(The following data is written as if it were a timing diagram)

1st gear ...10100000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10100 000001..(60ms)..
2nd gear ...10010000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10010 000001..(60ms)..
3rd gear ...10110000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10110 000001..(60ms)..
4th gear ...10001000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10001 000001..(60ms)..
5th gear ...10101000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10101 000001..(60ms)..
6th gear ...10011000001..(10ms)..10000000001..(10ms)..10011 000001..(60ms)..

So for 1st gear, if we monitor the speedo to ECU signal line (on a P7 speedo to P7 ECU of course) then we see the signal go to 0v for 64us then 9.8v for 64us then 0v for 448us then back to 9.8v
There is then a gap of 10ms (less 576us) to the middle packet which is a null frame: 0v for 576us
After another gap of 10ms (less 576us) the first data byte is repeated.
The data line is then inactive (still at 9.8v) for around 60ms until the whole thing is repeated.
(In the data sequence shown, dots represent where the data line is at a steady 9.8v level)

The speedo uses these data packets to continually verify the comms to the ECU, but of course these also represent what gear we are in.
So long as any of these 3 byte data packets are being sent then the FI/red LED will not be activated due to comms fail.
If the bike is in neutral then no gear is shown on the LCD part of the speedo.
If the bike is in gear then the LCD segment shows gear 1-6 depending on what data packets are being sent on the ECU comms line.

We are now in a position to make our own automatic gear indicator using engine RPM and wheel tacho signal. This is done by dividing the engine RPM count by the wheel tacho count. Both these signals already go to the speedo for displaying speed and revs.

OK, so I'll follow this up with a part2: cheap hardware to do all the signal controls.
Finally part3: this will be the software to program into a PIC micro.
 
#40 ·
Hey Boo sent you a PM with the timing we're using. I did this before I seen the new post with the quote from Kawi forums and the timing. Is this a post from when EXTRA400 was building the adapters for the ZX6r ? He also built an adapter for the 05 to 08 ZX10r gauge conversion, it didn't work. I have one of his adapters. Well at least the one he sent me doesn't work. The speedometer or gear indicator doesn't function. Other than that it's a nice professional built adapter. Maybe I got a faulty one.
 
#41 ·
Yeah it was EXTR400 wish he was a member here he likes to share :wink:

Yeah maybe a faulty Adapter is EXTRA400 still around?

bloo
 
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